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RexGig0

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  1. I do not consider the M10 to be out-of-date. 24MP is almost always adequate resolution, and while the M10-P introduced a quieter shutter, I do not consider the original M10’s shutter to be loud. If I need help determining proper leveling, I can insert a bubble level into the flash shoe. Thus far, I have resisted the urge to buy a newer M model. I will admit/disclose that I can “cheat.” I do have high-resolution cameras, a ~50MP Canon 5Ds R, and a ~47MP Nikon D850, but mostly use that resolution for macro and nature photography, when acting as a “citizen scientist.” (I mostly use Canon DSLRs for macro, and I and my wife both use Nikon equipment for birds and general nature photography. She was the mentor who got me started in serious photography.) Acquiring a higher-resolution M camera, for people and “general” photography, remains unimportant.
  2. Something tells me that you would like to try the Zeiss 35mm f/2,8 ZM. 😉
  3. Another consideration is the ergonomic factor. A lens that is a better fit, in one’s upraised left hand/fingers, is going to be significant, in using best hand-held technique. An ill-fitting lens may “cost” more than the difference in the shutter speed/focal length equation. I have somewhat long hands, but medium fingers, and relatively short thumbs, so, cannot pretend to guess what lens may be a good fit for another person.
  4. I will add that the sensor’s resolution, and resulting pixel density, are important considerations in what shutter speeds will be acceptable. When I bought my first high-resolution camera, a Canon 7D, in 2010, those 18MP, on an APS-C sensor, “demanded” an immediate improvement in technique, and higher shutter speeds. (My previous camera had been a Canon 40D, with 10MP on an APS-C sensor.) When I started adding cameras with full-36mmx24mm-frame sensors, they had 12MP on those larger sensors, and so were much better for hand-held, low-light photography. This was with a Canon 5D, followed by a Nikon D700. (I started buying Nikon cameras, in order to share Nikon lenses with my wife, who was/is quite dedicated to Nikon.) With full-36mmx24mm-frame sensors, my resolution jump was from 12MP to ~50MP, when I added a Canon 5Ds R, in 2016. This one “demanded” that I use much faster shutter speeds, and has never become one of my low-light cameras, unless using flash. Now, with Leica M equipment, I am in no rush to “upgrade” to 40MP or higher, as so much of my photography is at night, or in near-darkness, especially during these hot Texas summers. (A South Texas Summer is not just three months, in duration.) I noted that David Farkas recommends using quite fast shutter speeds, when he writes or speaks about using the ~40MP M10 Monochrom.
  5. Using the images, in this linked article, as examples, the bokeh “balls” may be slightly more pleasing, in the pre-ASPH Summilux image, but the Summilux-M ASPH is doing a more-pleasant background blur, as my eyes see it. https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2014/10/bokeh-kings/
  6. Indeed, “bokeh balls” are far from everything. The Summilux-M 50mm ASPH is THE lens that lured me to add the Leica M system. The excellent results with a human subject, and a smoothly-blurred background, especially vegetation and architectural features,, were what drew me to decide to buy the lens, which was a locally-available, well-preserved, pre-owned sample, before I knew which camera body I would be acquiring. (It was a happy coincidence that the dealer had just received two new M10 cameras, in a time when it was just becoming possible to buy a new M10, without having to first be on a waiting list.) I certainly noticed the interesting “star” highlights, in that specific aperture range, when I started using my Summilux-M ASPH, but did not let it bother me. Later, I added a Thambar-M 90mm, which does have plenty of aperture blades, producing one of the most-rounded apertures in the industry, so, I now have “rounded bokeh balls” well-covered, when I need that effect. (I bought this one pre-owned, also. Every Leica-brand lens that I have bought, thus far, has been acquired pre-owned.)
  7. External power seems to have skipped the M10 generation. The Leica Multifunction Handgrip, and the matching, proprietary mains power adapter, were manufactured for the M Type 240-series, but only the Monochrom 246 performs really well at high ISO settings, for true night shooting. (I do not know if a Monochrom would be useful, for the OP’s night sky shooting.) I recently took delivery of a mains power adapter, which was most difficult to find in the USA, but more available in Europe. The Multifunction Handgrip does, however, add a notable amount of weight and bulk, and any external battery would need to be used with a suitable adapter, with their own weight/mass and bulk factors. Notably, the 240-series M cameras use such larger-capacity batteries, there is a lesser need for external power, than is the case with M10-series cameras. The additional juice became quite apparent, when I added an M Type 246, after I had started M-system shooting, using an M10. Interestingly, the battery for the M11 offers substantially more juice than the M10 battery. The black version of the M11 offers lighter weight/mass than the 240-series and the M10, and ability to use external power, via the USB port. The weight difference should be of some help, when dealing with a medical/mobility issue. The USB-C power source simplifies supplying that power, with no need to add weight or bulk to the camera body. If I were to develop a need for an ultra-light kit, based upon using one or more M-mount lenses, with external power being necessary, I reckon that the black M11 would be the simplest answer, if not the most budget-friendly solution. (I have not done any math, regarding the weight of a battery suitable to provide substantial power to an M11.) To be clear, I am not trying to “sell” an M11, to anyone. I hope to avoid temptation, myself, for as long as practicable.
  8. All else being equal, a 28mm is going to be a better hand-held, night-shooting lens, than a 50mm. It is not just that the shorter focal length allows for a longer successful exposure time, but the DOF will be deeper, which minimizes focusing errors, minimizes the likelihood that the subject will move beyond that depth, as well as mitigates any tendency to involuntarily move fore-and-aft. The DOF of a wide-open, fast fifty is amazingly thin, at close range. My 28mm f/1.4 lens is a Nikkor AF-S f/1.4E, for Nikon F-mount, and my fastest 50mm M lens, that I have used at night, is my Summilux-M ASPH, so I cannot provide advice based upon direct “apples-to-apples” experience, with the lenses specified in the the original post. (I recently took delivery of a Cosina Voigtlander 50mm f/1.0 Nokton, but I have yet to use it, in challenging “available darkness” conditions.) I am not meaning to discourage anyone from low-light shooting, with any lens that one desires to use. The challenge will simply be noticeably greater, with a 50mm, than with a 28mm. My least-terrible, hand-held, really-low-light images have been shot with a Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G lens. (Unless I was using flash, of course.) Wider-angle lenses are tremendously helpful, when shooting at night, which is why I recently ordered a Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 Nokton, along with my above-mentioned 50mm f/1.0 Nokton.
  9. A hood is less necessary, for protection, when shooting monochrome, with a colored filter. 😉
  10. I felt that it was important to not only “Like” what you said, but to quote, for emphasis. As I see it, a Summilux-M ASPH has enough of the “APO sauce,” to suit me. Words written/spoken by such diverse folks as Roger Cicala and Peter Karbe have validated my choice of the ‘Lux. Neither the size nor the weight of the ‘Lux have been a problem. Viewfinder blockage, which is not much of a bother, could be mitigated, just a bit, by opting for the Black Chrome E43 edition of the ‘Lux.
  11. The soonest that I could use a credit card to buy an APO Summicron-M 35mm ASPH would be near the end of June, and that would not be the wisest financial move. 2023 would probably be better. So, I am not on any waiting lists. Another reason that I can be patient, is that I am able to “cheat,” if I need a close-focusing 35mm f/2 lens. Actually, it is not cheating, but simply that Canon EOS EF remains my primary macro and close-range system, from when I was working for the police department, and had the added responsibility of evidentiary/forensic/crime scene photography. Canon manufactures an excellent close-focusing EF 35mm f/2 lens, which nicely complements an EF 100mm Macro L lens. Both have Image Stabilization. A close-focusing 35mm is truly useful, when one has to crawl about, inside confined spaces, such as vehicles, to photograph such things as bullet holes. They share a filter thread size, so can share a Macro ring Lite flash. Realistically, the magnification ratio of my recently-acquired APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH may well make it the better candidate, than the APO Summicron-M 35mm ASPH, for actual close-range shooting. (I have yet to attempt to do the math.) This lens was not a hot item, on the pre-owned market, compared to many other M lenses, lately, so, I was able to get it for a quite nice price.
  12. Well, my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, the lens that lured me to add the Leica M system, certainly suits. 😉 Adding an APO 50mm would be, well, perhaps a bit ostentatious, which is why I resist…
  13. Your experience-based report is useful, too. Thanks.
  14. Well, it is good to have learned about this particular weakness. Whenever I start to become tempted to add an APO Summicron-M 50mm ASPH, such information assists my efforts to resist temptation. The 50 APO is not my “holy grail,” among Leica lenses, anyway, so saving money is not the sole motivation.
  15. I tested pre-owned or demo M Type 240 cameras, with one particular pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH lens, at the official Leica dealer, in nearby Houston, Texas, on at least two occasions. When I decided to go ahead and buy the lens, without yet knowing which M camera I would acquire, upon which to use it, I was presented the opportunity to try the lens on a new M10 camera, as they finally had two M10 cameras available, for sale, without the need to first be on a waiting list. I remember that I liked the M10’s colors, better than what I had experienced with the M Type 240. I cannot remember the specific difference, as that was April 2018, but I do remember that the employees’ Western European skin tones looked better with the M10, compared with the M Type 240. After I brought the lens and camera home, my wife’s Eastern European skin tone looked most wonderful with the M10, but I did not have a 240, with me, for comparison, because that M10 was my first Leica camera. I realize that my post is of limited usefulness, but it is simply meant to affirm what others have posted.
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