Survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica Q3?

[TDE-Photo]

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vor 16 Stunden schrieb Mr.Q:

Right, comparison at ISO 6400 would make a bit more sense.  Both photos in the comparison are unusable imo.

Fully agree, here is a comparison at ISO 3200, I can do ISO 6400 as well. Difference is not so big. Photonstophoto measure for the M11 sensor a 2 stop difference to the Q2 sensor ras far as I can remember. Between Q2 and Q3 it is more half a stop.

 

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[Lucena]

3 hours ago, SirBlunder said:

You need an ND filter for that…

I have one, but most of the time I just increase speed, the Q2 allows a lot more than 2000 through the menu

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[LocalHero1953]

17 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

That's so amazing...I mean every day I'm in situations where i need 25000ISO...hopefully the sarcasm is coming through!

That's like saying...look how much better a Ferraril drives at 180mph than a Toyota.  I live in a city so...do I care?

Horses for courses, YMMV, different strokes etc etc. 

I often shoot at 25,000, so this is useful info for me.

[Mr.Q]

5 hours ago, TDE-Photo said:

Fully agree, here is a comparison at ISO 3200, I can do ISO 6400 as well. Difference is not so big. Photonstophoto measure for the M11 sensor a 2 stop difference to the Q2 sensor ras far as I can remember. Between Q2 and Q3 it is more half a stop.

 

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Thanks, good to know that the difference is quite small in real world use.

[Mr.Q]

5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Horses for courses, YMMV, different strokes etc etc. 

I often shoot at 25,000, so this is useful info for me.

Curious, in what kind of situation do you use ISO 25,000? Astro?

[LocalHero1953]

5 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

Curious, in what kind of situation do you use ISO 25,000? Astro?

Drama, dance and musical rehearsals and performances (though many, but not all, of the latter have good lighting). Even if you can get away with lower ISO with a wide aperture or slower speeds, greater depth of field for drama, and faster shutter speeds for dance are useful. The SL2-S is manageable at ISO25,000 (and AI noise reduction), but I would use even higher ISO if it was available. I would also use the Q2/Q3 if they could approach the SL2-S performance - a small, light camera, and one with a quiet leaf shutter can also be valuable for such work.

Edited July 2, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Mr.Q]

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That makes sense, and I agree that a lower resolution sensor specialized in low light (ie SL2-S or monochrome) would be the better tool for your photography.  The Q series are evolving with cropability (which equates to versatility) as the priority, and will continue the path of higher resolution sensors. I wouldn't be surprised if the Q4 came with a 100MP sensor with 135mm frame lines.  

Edited July 2, 2023 by Mr.Q

[LocalHero1953]

41 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

That makes sense, and I agree that a lower resolution sensor specialized in low light (ie SL2-S or monochrome) would be the better tool for your photography.  The Q series are evolving with cropability (which equates to versatility) as the priority, and will continue the path of higher resolution sensors. I wouldn't be surprised if the Q4 came with a 100MP sensor with 135mm frame lines.  

That only makes sense if one doesn't also want a small, quiet*, colour camera with more pixels. But hey ho, I'm grateful for the advice on what camera I need.

At present the SL2-S certainly is the better camera for this than the Q2. The Q3 has the potential to be used in similar scenarios as it is, especially if it performs well at high ISO.

 

 

*i.e. not an electronic shutter with its associated distortions.

Edited July 2, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[hoolyproductions]

7 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

Curious, in what kind of situation do you use ISO 25,000? Astro?

Thanks to TDE-Photo for these ISO comparisons! I also routinely shoot at ISO 12500-25000 (music photography in dimly lit venues) and this constitutes a big chunk of my 'serious' photography. The SL2-S is amazing for this whereas I find the Q2 to be off too low quality at these ISOs, so I'm also interested to see how much better the Q3 is - it would be nice to travel lighter sometimes when shooting in low light (although the reports of the black out time are a bit of a concern and I'm in no rush).

Having said that, I just finished a two week holiday trip with my Q2 and it has been great for that, although I do like to use longer focal lengths I'm willing to compromise for such a compact package.

[Mr.Q]

The SL2-S and Q3 are using the same generation sensor with BSI technology. There won't be any miracles --- the 24MP sensor will outperform the 60MP sensor quite comfortably.  There would have to be another breakthrough in sensor tech for high resolution + high ISO performance to be realized.

[Mr.Q]

6 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

But hey ho, I'm grateful for the advice on what camera I need.

There's no need to make snarky comments. I was simply agreeing with your choice of shooting with the SL2-S. I gave no advice.

[SrMi]

27 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

The SL2-S and Q3 are using the same generation sensor with BSI technology. There won't be any miracles --- the 24MP sensor will outperform the 60MP sensor quite comfortably.  There would have to be another breakthrough in sensor tech for high resolution + high ISO performance to be realized.

Why would a 24MP sensor outperform a 60MP sensor quite comfortably? In most situations, a 60MP sensor will have the same noise but show more detail at the output level. 

[LocalHero1953]

49 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

There's no need to make snarky comments. I was simply agreeing with your choice of shooting with the SL2-S. I gave no advice.

In response to a question, I explained why I used ISO25,000; you told me what was better for my photography.

[Aram Langhans]

6 hours ago, SrMi said:

Why would a 24MP sensor outperform a 60MP sensor quite comfortably? In most situations, a 60MP sensor will have the same noise but show more detail at the output level. 

Each pixel on a 24MP sensor is much larger than one on a 60MP sensor, so it can gather more light.  In low light that will make the signal to noise ratio much higher on the 24MP sensor, so you will get a much cleaner image.  You are correct that at low ISO's ("most situations") this does not matter much and you will get a sharper and more detailed image with the 60MP sensor, but as you crank up the ISO, the 24MP sensor will outperform the 60MP sensor as far as noise in concerned.

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Aram Langhans

[gotium]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:00 AM, Aram Langhans said:

Well, here are some totally unprocessed DNG files from the Q2 and Q3 side by side in Lightroom 1:1 screen captures.  Q2 on left and Q3 on right.  First is ISO 12500 and second is ISO 25000 I took at the Bellevue Leica store a month ago.  To me the difference is much more than very small, but I guess everyone is free to interpret them as you choose.

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You're comparing DNG to JPG in the first set?

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Aram Langhans said:

Each pixel on a 24MP sensor is much larger than one on a 60MP sensor, so it can gather more light.  In low light that will make the signal to noise ratio much higher on the 24MP sensor, so you will get a much cleaner image.  You are correct that at low ISO's ("most situations") this does not matter much and you will get a sharper and more detailed image with the 60MP sensor, but as you crank up the ISO, the 24MP sensor will outperform the 60MP sensor as far as noise in concerned.

 

While each larger 24MP pixel does gather more light, a 60MP has many more pixels. Ultimately, it is a wash as long as you look at the output of the same size (same resolution). SNR is always measured at the same output size (DxO, P2P) and is practically the same in 24MP and 60MP sensors (using similar technology). The only difference you can see is at 100% viewing, but that has no practical application.

The main benefit of smaller resolution sensors is lower cost and smaller file sizes. Smaller resolution sensors do not have better DR.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5559775087/choosing-a-camera-should-i-worry-about-pixel-size

[TDE-Photo]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Aram Langhans:

Each pixel on a 24MP sensor is much larger than one on a 60MP sensor, so it can gather more light.  In low light that will make the signal to noise ratio much higher on the 24MP sensor, so you will get a much cleaner image.  You are correct that at low ISO's ("most situations") this does not matter much and you will get a sharper and more detailed image with the 60MP sensor, but as you crank up the ISO, the 24MP sensor will outperform the 60MP sensor as far as noise in concerned.

 

the question is, how you compare the two sensors? same print size? that means you will downscale the 60 mpix and then it will not be worse than the 24 mpix sensor. 100% view is not the right way to compare.

[Aram Langhans]

19 hours ago, gotium said:

You're comparing DNG to JPG in the first set?

OOPS.   You are correct.  Sorry.  So, just for the sake of correctness here is the comparison at ISO 12500 and they are both undeveloped DNG files.  Q3 on the right

And below I found ISO 6400 since some wanted a lower ISO.  I did not shoot at ISO 3200.  

As to the discussion as to the validity of the test method or to your particular needs, I will leave that up to you, but now at least the images are correct.

 

 

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Edited July 3, 2023 by Aram Langhans

[liggy]

lol... I don't care too much about noise anymore with Topaz on the job.  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[CelciusCat]

Back to the survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica Q3?  Other opinion (please comment below)

No, I'd love to get the new Q3 but its out of reach for me. 😐 I'll keep using my seven year old Q/116 for travel and stock photography.

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Edited July 4, 2023 by CelciusCat