LocalHero1953 Posted November 15, 2017 Share #501 Posted November 15, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) ............................. What attraction does it have over the competition, apart from the red dot? .......................................... Well, the red dot counts for a lot in marketing. But aside from that, I hope it will have the traditional Leica virtues of simple intuitive UI, high quality construction and performance, and ability to use all the Leica lenses in creation. That is enough to see off a lot of competition. If it is APS-C then it's not the interchangeable lens Q, EVIL M or mini SL that would look attractive to those of us long term inhabitants of Lei-lei-land (with Ms and SLs), but if priced in TL territory it could easily draw in new users. If, internally, this is really a TL2 with an EVF, then it would have been an interesting discussion at Wetzlar whether to give it TL2 style or M10 style. Perhaps, as a bigger camera and with an EVF, it is less likely to be seen as a step up from a smartphone, and so less in need of a touchscreen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 15, 2017 Posted November 15, 2017 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Code Name "Clooney". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tritentrue Posted November 15, 2017 Share #502 Posted November 15, 2017 If it turns out to be more or less an integrated-EVF version of the TL2, I won't rush out on launch day to grab one, as I'm well-satisfied with my TL2. But I suspect it'll be different enough to make me get one eventually. The lure of this system is as much the lenses as it is the camera bodies, especially native TL glass, but also adapted lenses. Having a different body, even if it's only slightly different, will be a good thing for my purposes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 15, 2017 Share #503 Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) Hmmm. I used to visit this forum to read all the complaints about how the L mount had no lenses. Now we agree that the CL will sell because of all the existing lenses it can use. More Kool-Ade, anyone? I find it tasty. Edited November 15, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigill Posted November 15, 2017 Share #504 Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) So I am new to Leica (I have Fuji gear, T2) and after a second camera. Been looking at the Q since October (after alot of reading on this forum and visit to Leica store!). Now my preferred Leica store has some stock who gave me the demo... lovely... but I was waiting for the launch, just incase something tempted me !! The shop was talking about 4 weeks for stock possibly, so instead, thats turned into a week Whats worse, they have now sent me an invitation for the event... suspense is killing me (although I love the Q), just want to make sure I don't make a mistake with a new kid on the block due ! Now to re arrange work, travel plans and see if I can go ! Edited November 15, 2017 by Minigill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 15, 2017 Share #505 Posted November 15, 2017 Hmmm. I used to visit this forum to read all the complaints about how the L mount had no lenses. Now we agree that the CL will sell because of all the existing lenses it can use. More Kool-Ade, anyone? I find it tasty. Those complaints are mainly about the SL, and its 2, now 3, lenses. The TL has 6 native lenses, apparently with another on its way. And I use M lenses on the TL2 - rarely on the SL, but others use them much more. Of course those asking for more lenses are not the same group as those who see a reasonable choice already. It depends on your outlook and wishes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted November 15, 2017 Share #506 Posted November 15, 2017 What I got through the grapevine: ... Same EVF as the Typ 020, but without GPS. ... No mention of IBIS or PDAF. [emoji15] In November 2017, that outdated EVF ? Years after the Q and the SL were released ? Repeating the same mistake they made with the M10 ? And no IBIS ? What is the purpose of the partnership with Panasonic ? Let’s hope it is not true or that there is something better in the pipeline for 2018. Like an Apo-Extender for the 90-280 ? [emoji6] Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 15, 2017 Share #507 Posted November 15, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) What I got through the grapevine: Name will probably be "CL." 1/8000 mechanical shutter. Same EVF as the Typ 020, but without GPS. Leaked photos are the actual camera. Appears to be a tandem (my word choice) product rather than an upgrade. Price slightly more than that of current TL2 + external EVF. No mention of IBIS or PDAF. Well, the red dot counts for a lot in marketing. But aside from that, I hope it will have the traditional Leica virtues of simple intuitive UI, high quality construction and performance, and ability to use all the Leica lenses in creation. That is enough to see off a lot of competition. If it is APS-C then it's not the interchangeable lens Q, EVIL M or mini SL that would look attractive to those of us long term inhabitants of Lei-lei-land (with Ms and SLs), but if priced in TL territory it could easily draw in new users. If, internally, this is really a TL2 with an EVF, then it would have been an interesting discussion at Wetzlar whether to give it TL2 style or M10 style. Perhaps, as a bigger camera and with an EVF, it is less likely to be seen as a step up from a smartphone, and so less in need of a touchscreen. If those specs are true, there is no reason for expecting nothing different than a flop. No interesting features, design or price. Only the red dot and its associated premium price. That is a too dangerous game to play. The TL2 is a very special camera, different, beautiful, unique in many senses... I like that system, for small cameras and lenses for travel, etc. But this XY camera... maybe I am wrong and it is success... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 15, 2017 Share #508 Posted November 15, 2017 In November 2017, that outdated EVF ? [...] Repeating the same mistake they made with the M10 ? And no IBIS ? What is the purpose of the partnership with Panasonic ? [...] Keeping costs as low as possible i guess. When was it when Leica delivered an up-to-date body in your experience? Never happened to me since the eighties i must say. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 15, 2017 Share #509 Posted November 15, 2017 No IBIS I can understand - it might make the camera too large. But Panasonic has an excellent 3.7 MP OLED EVF. If it fits into an MFT body it will fit an APS-C one as well. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted November 15, 2017 Share #510 Posted November 15, 2017 Keeping costs as low as possible i guess. When was it when Leica delivered an up-to-date body in your experience? Never happened to me since the eighties i must say. The Q and the SL come to my mind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted November 15, 2017 Share #511 Posted November 15, 2017 Keep arguing over something nobody knows for sure what it will be. Entertaining but same old same old. Can you not wait another week to discuss the real thing? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 15, 2017 Share #512 Posted November 15, 2017 Speculation is half the fun of anticipation. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted November 15, 2017 Share #513 Posted November 15, 2017 Keep arguing over something nobody knows for sure what it will be. Entertaining but same old same old. Can you not wait another week to discuss the real thing? These are just the 'warm-up' acts … Await the sour grapes comments when the 'real thing' is announced dunk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 15, 2017 Share #514 Posted November 15, 2017 Panasonic "stabilization in camera system" may be a patent of Olympus. I don't know if Panasonic and Olympus shared resources, but it is probable. The same for the cleaning sensor system. Panasonic has stabilization in the lenses. Leica's implementation of this might have something from Panasonic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 15, 2017 Share #515 Posted November 15, 2017 These are just the 'warm-up' acts … Await the sour grapes comments when the 'real thing' is announced dunk It would be great if some surprise is under the skin of this potato CL. Knishes come to mind: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 15, 2017 Share #516 Posted November 15, 2017 Panasonic "stabilization in camera system" may be a patent of Olympus. I don't know if Panasonic and Olympus shared resources, but it is probable. The same for the cleaning sensor system. Panasonic has stabilization in the lenses. Leica's implementation of this might have something from Panasonic. The O.I.S is in "Leica" Panasonic lenses as well. The Olympus and Panasonic IBIS are not compatible, so I doubt whether this is a shared resource. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 15, 2017 Share #517 Posted November 15, 2017 If the leaks are true, this camera fills a gap - not a big oone, but a gap. The problem is we’re used to Leica making brave choices - full frame digital M, Monochrom, live view M, M-D, SL, M10, Q, TL2. Like the X-Vario, this may underwhelm, but it will have its adherents, I guess. I just find what we’ve seen not particularly attractive, and having a TL2, not very interesting. I’m rather hoping Leica will have something else on offer next week. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 15, 2017 Share #518 Posted November 15, 2017 Agree. It is hard to see why this leaked camera would merit a huge event. Unless they want to start pushing the X-line agressively. It is a bit dead in the water right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted November 15, 2017 Share #519 Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) Keep arguing over something nobody knows for sure what it will be. Entertaining but same old same old. Can you not wait another week to discuss the real thing? The people who've looked the EVF know. It is that of the SL (I doubt the person was lying to me). That's why the ugly lump. Let's hope they deliver it with a more advanced AF system than the TL2 (all I was told is that it is lightening fast with the 18mm pancake lens). If they do this, it won't be dead in the water. To the contrary. They give Louis and others here the nice little travel/street camera they desire and they give jjb and Scott the 24 MP range extender for their SL zooms. Add to it really fast AF and a rugged handgrip as jjb suggested and it could be used for sports and action, too. Does anyone here really think they would do a big "Das Wesentliche" event for a retro version of the TL2 with a crappy EVF (it will have the TL2 sensor)? Edited November 15, 2017 by Chaemono 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 15, 2017 Share #520 Posted November 15, 2017 You clearly don’t remember the “mini M” fiasco. I agree that a camera like this, with an 18mm pancake (almost 28mm fov) will be a nice complement to an SL as a walk around camera. It’s just what we’ve seen looks a little ... less than what was hoped for - full frame? No. SL EVF? No(?) SL interface? No. Slick, cool body? No It’s a tough world out there, and Leica has made its mark by pushing boundaries in a careful and considered way. I’m sure this camera will be fine, but it looks like someone raided the parts bin. Even if it has the SL EVF, why squeze it in like this, then throw on a messy topdeck, and dated buttons around the LCD and 4 way switch? A clean touch screen and joystick, and sleak topdeck would be more appealing. I still rather hope it’s a prototype or a mock up, but I can’t recall this happening in the past ... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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