Guest VVJ Posted November 10, 2017 Share #421 Posted November 10, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) When the SL was launched there were also a lot of people bitching about how ugly it was... I like the SL and I like the new camera as well, nothing wrong with it from a design point of view IMO... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 10, 2017 Posted November 10, 2017 Hi Guest VVJ, Take a look here Code Name "Clooney". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest VVJ Posted November 10, 2017 Share #422 Posted November 10, 2017 Once we line up the TL2 with the new camera, there is sufficient difference to drive sales of both. If it doesn't, I will happily keep using my TL2 ... I tend to disagree on this one. Long term perhaps, short term no. If the EVF and the AF is good and the price not too crazy it will dwarf TL2 sales. Additionally if the new camera has fabulous AF and the TL2 not, why is that? Did Leica already stop investing in the TL2? IMO Leica does not really know where to go with the TL-line. It is a striking design but it is also completely locked in that design. Without fundamentally changing the design it might not be so easy to improve the camera significantly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
can-photo Posted November 10, 2017 Share #423 Posted November 10, 2017 I think it will be priced between 1.5 to 2 times more than the TL2 for the viewfinder, body stabilisation and retro styling. Pure speculation though For that reason I do believe there will be reason for both cameras to coexist Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted November 10, 2017 Share #424 Posted November 10, 2017 I think it will be priced between 1.5 to 2 times more than the TL2 for the viewfinder, body stabilisation and retro styling. Pure speculation though Twice as much would be more than the Sony A7riii which is FF and has almost double the resolution. Would probably be commercial suicide IMO... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted November 10, 2017 Share #425 Posted November 10, 2017 should have just called this new one the TL3. I tend to disagree on this one. Long term perhaps, short term no. If the EVF and the AF is good and the price not too crazy it will dwarf TL2 sales. Additionally if the new camera has fabulous AF and the TL2 not, why is that? Did Leica already stop investing in the TL2? IMO Leica does not really know where to go with the TL-line. It is a striking design but it is also completely locked in that design. Without fundamentally changing the design it might not be so easy to improve the camera significantly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted November 10, 2017 Share #426 Posted November 10, 2017 When the SL was launched there were also a lot of people bitching about how ugly it was... I like the SL and I like the new camera as well, nothing wrong with it from a design point of view IMO... John I agree with you that the form of the proposed new camera is very nice looking and also agree that the SL is not.................It will be interesting to see what the files are like compared to the M10/TL2 and SL. All in all I think that this is going to be a nice camera for all of those that are happy with M10/TL2 and SL like IQ..........especially as it has (Well I assume it has AF) and a nicely built in EVF Personally I will wait for a change in the S series range before investing any more in Leica.........after shooting with the S007 for a year now anything else that I have tried just doesn't tick all the boxes (even the XID............that was a complete disappointment that one) Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted November 10, 2017 Share #427 Posted November 10, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) The good thing IMO is that Leica is showing a lot of commitment to APS-C with 3 bodies (TL, TL2 and the new one) in slightly over a year. They must see opportunities for APS-C and the TL lens line-up. I think they are just trying to find something now that commercially sticks... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 10, 2017 Share #428 Posted November 10, 2017 ............ IMO Leica does not really know where to go with the TL-line. It is a striking design but it is also completely locked in that design. Without fundamentally changing the design it might not be so easy to improve the camera significantly. Why do you say that? Sure, it's locked into its design, but so is the M10 - neither are universal camera bodies. The touch interface, the absence of built-in EVF and the mutual incompatibility of flash and EVF just mean a different way of working. As far as I'm concerned the main defect of the TL2 is its AF, which doesn't seem related to its basic design. The absence of an EVF is Leica's design choice which keeps the form factor small and neat. Clooney looks like it will be a bit larger, probably heavier, and more lumpy. If the only other difference is an EVF then I will be happy with my TL2. If Clooney's AF is significantly better as well - up with the SL, say - I will be annoyed: the two are close enough in time for the TL2 to have benefitted from the same improvements. I'm still not interested in Clooney, from what we know of it, simply because it's APS-C. I'll wait for the full frame version. OTOH, Leica may be preparing to astonish us (who says the pictures released as part of a regulatory submission are anything to do with 22nd November?) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 10, 2017 Share #429 Posted November 10, 2017 I think it will be priced between 1.5 to 2 times more than the TL2 for the viewfinder, body stabilisation and retro styling. Pure speculation though For that reason I do believe there will be reason for both cameras to coexist not sure why Leica would include the complexity of in-body stabilisation when it is meant for T & SL lenses which already have it (in those that need it). they have never been very interested in 3rd party compatibility. we may be surprised ...... but I doubt it .... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted November 10, 2017 Share #430 Posted November 10, 2017 not sure why Leica would include the complexity of in-body stabilisation when it is meant for T & SL lenses which already have it (in those that need it). they have never been very interested in 3rd party compatibility. we may be surprised ...... but I doubt it .... I also doubt that it will happen but the TL lenses themselves would benefit a lot from IBIS as well. It would be really beneficial for the 55-135 and the zooms are too often too slow for indoors usage, a gain of 3 stops would be huge there IMO. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 10, 2017 Share #431 Posted November 10, 2017 I think it will be priced between 1.5 to 2 times more than the TL2 for the viewfinder, body stabilisation and retro styling. Pure speculation though For that reason I do believe there will be reason for both cameras to coexist It should be less expensive. The electronic components are not so expensive. The TL2 has an expensive body, touch-sensitive screen and sophisticated interface. The question is how good the viewfinder is. I bet for 3,68 MP and a higher refresh rate than the Leica Q. Here we have more leaked pictures of this beautiful camera: Also in black: 14 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted November 10, 2017 Share #432 Posted November 10, 2017 Twice as much would be more than the Sony A7riii which is FF and has almost double the resolution. Would probably be commercial suicide IMO... For most players, yes, but not for Leica.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted November 10, 2017 Share #433 Posted November 10, 2017 not sure why Leica would include the complexity of in-body stabilisation when it is meant for T & SL lenses which already have it (in those that need it). they have never been very interested in 3rd party compatibility. we may be surprised ...... but I doubt it .... The 280mm APO R on a cropped, ibis-stabilised Leica body is certainly interesting. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted November 10, 2017 Share #434 Posted November 10, 2017 It should be less expensive. The electronic components are not so expensive. The TL2 has an expensive body, touch-sensitive screen and sophisticated interface. The question is how good the viewfinder is. I bet for 3,68 MP and a higher refresh rate than the Leica Q. Here we have more leaked pictures of this beautiful camera: Yes, bio-dynamic sensors represent a disruptive change of the industry, on par with the Kodak Brownie in year 1900. Those that are in, will survive. Those sleeping, will join Kodak anno 2012. Leica seems to be on the correct path. But my fiancee miss the pink coloured bio-sensor. Do you listen, Leica? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted November 10, 2017 Share #435 Posted November 10, 2017 Here we have more leaked pictures of this beautiful camera: There are already some dust on the sensor as usual. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted November 10, 2017 Share #436 Posted November 10, 2017 For most players, yes, but not for Leica.. I hear what you are saying... but it better be damned good then... and include IBIS as well... 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted November 10, 2017 Share #437 Posted November 10, 2017 not sure why Leica would include the complexity of in-body stabilisation when it is meant for T & SL lenses which already have it (in those that need it). IBIS in coordination with optical stabilization adds more dimensions to stabilization. Optical stabilization cannot compensate for rotation along the axis of the lens, for example. The 280mm APO R on a cropped, ibis-stabilised Leica body is certainly interesting. It's certainly interesting on a non-Leica full-frame body with IBIS: 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_S Posted November 10, 2017 Share #438 Posted November 10, 2017 Alright, I have no speculations to add but (equally senseless) what I would LIKE to see is a body similar in weight closer to the X (not T), APS-H sensor (not -C), L-mount and to top it a version with monochrom sensor (; ... basically a monochrom b/w camera when the MM is to heavy and fragile. I know, I know, it will not happen. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted November 10, 2017 Share #439 Posted November 10, 2017 Why do you say that? Sure, it's locked into its design, but so is the M10 - neither are universal camera bodies. The touch interface, the absence of built-in EVF and the mutual incompatibility of flash and EVF just mean a different way of working. As far as I'm concerned the main defect of the TL2 is its AF, which doesn't seem related to its basic design. The absence of an EVF is Leica's design choice which keeps the form factor small and neat. Clooney looks like it will be a bit larger, probably heavier, and more lumpy. If the only other difference is an EVF then I will be happy with my TL2. If Clooney's AF is significantly better as well - up with the SL, say - I will be annoyed: the two are close enough in time for the TL2 to have benefitted from the same improvements. I'm still not interested in Clooney, from what we know of it, simply because it's APS-C. I'll wait for the full frame version. OTOH, Leica may be preparing to astonish us (who says the pictures released as part of a regulatory submission are anything to do with 22nd November?) Paul Surly but not sure if you know what I mean.............if the Clowy has faster AF then surley but not sure Leica should be able to fix the TL2 with an firmwhere update Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 10, 2017 Share #440 Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) Paul Surly but not sure if you know what I mean.............if the Clowy has faster AF then surley but not sure Leica should be able to fix the TL2 with an firmwhere update Neil Yes, that would be my preferred outcome. TL2 with AF like the SL. I have the M240 and SL for when I want a bigger camera, but I'd like a fast AF small TL2 for casual use and social stuff. I find I can live without the EVF for such scenarios. Edited November 10, 2017 by LocalHero1953 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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