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Leica - one of the least reliable camera company. Sad really. Good customer service is not a bonus for crap quality control or design issue.

 

I remember (vaguely) reading Tom Peters' "In Search Of Excellence" a while ago. One of the key lessons from that was that Great Customer Service combined with innovative marketing was FAR more likely to lead to a successful company than building a better mousetrap.

Or, just look around you and notice how the Market Leader is very rarely the manufacturer of the 'best' product.

Sadly the component that always seems to be missing when I encounter a poor / faulty product is the Customer Service.

 

Cheers,

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My car is over three years old - but there is a general recall because it may fail to start the engine and deplete the drive battery, freezing it. Wrong type of spark plugs and ECU firmware issues. Welcome to the electronic age of overcomplicated  machines, folks... 

 

 

It doesn’t help to minimise mishaps like this. It is potentially disastrous for the company. Leica isn’t big enough to be able to absorb a mountain of remedial work alongside its new production without eating into its profitability. Not to mention the reputational damage and that really matters to a luxury company such as Leica which trades so heavily on its heritage of quality engineering. And prices its products accordingly.

 

This is the sort of thing that gives investors the jitters. Blackstone will not be impressed.

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A number of years ago I bought a Sony RX1 from B+H in New York. Charged the battery and tried to start it ...... just came up with a Fault Warning (Some code I can't remember). B+H replaced it without problem. However, on the replacement the manual focus didn't work and so it had to go into the Sony Service Centre in the UK for a couple of weeks. These things happen.

 

On the other hand, I've been using Leica since around 1969; had, 111 Series, M3, 2 x M6's, CLe, 2 x M8's, M9, M9 Monochrom, M240, M246, SL and T. In all that time the only problem I've had was when the plastic lens (?) fell out of the Frankenfinder and Leica fixed that for free. I've certainly been happy with Leica products and the wonderful images they produce.

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I can contribute that the TL2 I used for more than two months worked fine with the Visoflex EVF attached 95% of the time. 

 

...but what happened during that other 5% ?

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It doesn’t help to minimise mishaps like this. It is potentially disastrous for the company. Leica isn’t big enough to be able to absorb a mountain of remedial work alongside its new production without eating into its profitability. Not to mention the reputational damage and that really matters to a luxury company such as Leica which trades so heavily on its heritage of quality engineering. And prices its products accordingly.

 

This is the sort of thing that gives investors the jitters. Blackstone will not be impressed.

Hopefully Blackstone will have a sense of reality. The emotions on display here are understandable but should not be a real consideration for financiers. The risk of a recall is part of the calculation.

 

We will have to live with the fact that even Leica has moved into the 21st century. I think that we will have to look to the film Ms for old-fashion engineering .

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Hardly crap quality.  In all the (many) Leica cameras I have owned I have had only two problems.

1. The infrared sensitivity issue on the Leica M8, which was not important for me so I didn't bother with it.

2. The Leica TL2 going dead, which Leica have taken back and are crediting a full refund to my credit card.

 

Over lunch I've been listening to horror consumer stories from two friends and I think I'm in good shape with Leica.

 

- Vikas

My experience is different. M8,m9,mm,m240(only one with no problem) S006 (2 of them has dead pixel) and S007 all have some problem and 40% of my Leica S lens have dead Af issue. So. Yes. Crap quality.

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My experience is different. M8,m9,mm,m240(only one with no problem) S006 (2 of them has dead pixel) and S007 all have some problem and 40% of my Leica S lens have dead Af issue. So. Yes. Crap quality.

Good grief. I'm sorry to hear that. Leica seem to have dropped years of bad luck on you!

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It doesn’t help to minimise mishaps like this. It is potentially disastrous for the company. Leica isn’t big enough to be able to absorb a mountain of remedial work alongside its new production without eating into its profitability. Not to mention the reputational damage and that really matters to a luxury company such as Leica which trades so heavily on its heritage of quality engineering. And prices its products accordingly.

 

This is the sort of thing that gives investors the jitters. Blackstone will not be impressed.

Blah. Blah. Blah. Seriously, blah. My 944 Turbo ('86) had to be recalled because the exhaust manifold on the turbo side would crack because Porsche hadn't taken thermal expansion into account when they made the casting. One of the first fly-by-wire Airbus airliners smashed straight into a forest AT AN AIR SHOW because the computer didn't like the pilot's inputs. Cry me a river, euston, stuff happens. See: Apollo 1

 

One of my early digital Oly cameras died after a few months and I went to Oly to get it replaced, but they didn't make that camera anymore, at all, so they had to send me a completely different model. Welcome to the New Order.

Edited by fastfashn

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My experience is different. M8,m9,mm,m240(only one with no problem) S006 (2 of them has dead pixel) and S007 all have some problem and 40% of my Leica S lens have dead Af issue. So. Yes. Crap quality.

I can only tell you never to play Russian Roulette...

One point - pixel damage has nothing to do with the quality of the camera.

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Blah. Blah. Blah. Seriously, blah. My 944 Turbo ('86) had to be recalled because the exhaust manifold on the turbo side would crack because Porsche hadn't taken thermal expansion into account when they made the casting. One of the first fly-by-wire Airbus airliners smashed straight into a forest AT AN AIR SHOW because the computer didn't like the pilot's inputs. Cry me a river, euston, stuff happens. See: Apollo 1

 

One of my early digital Oly cameras died after a few months and I went to Oly to get it replaced, but they didn't make that camera anymore, at all, so they had to send me a completely different model. Welcome to the New Order.

 

I have no idea what a 944 Turbo is and I’m not in the market for an Airbus. We’re discussing Leica cameras. I have high expectations of their quality and reliability even in this digital age. Evidently, you don’t. You’re as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. No need to get your knickers in a twist!

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I have no idea what a 944 Turbo is and I’m not in the market for an Airbus. We’re discussing Leica cameras. I have high expectations of their quality and reliability even in this digital age. Evidently, you don’t. You’re as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. No need to get your knickers in a twist!

"I have no idea what a 944 Turbo is" At one time, the fastest production 4cyl on the planet. 

"Evidently, you don’t. " Oh dear gods.

"You’re as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine."  Mmmm...

"I’m not in the market for an Airbus. " I've already got one, itsa very nice.

 

Heh heh heh, I told him I already got one.

Edited by fastfashn

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Hopefully Blackstone will have a sense of reality. The emotions on display here are understandable but should not be a real consideration for financiers. The risk of a recall is part of the calculation.

 

We will have to live with the fact that even Leica has moved into the 21st century. I think that we will have to look to the film Ms for old-fashion engineering .

 

I’m not looking for old-fashioned engineering. What I expect from Leica is new-fashioned engineering which to me means electronic as well as mechanical excellence plus a quality regime that assures it. When they fall short, it should be seen as something worthy of remark, not as something to be expected and accepted. I don’t think your readiness to make excuses for Leica does the company any favours. Leica sets itself high standards. We should pay it the compliment of doing the same.

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I’m not looking for old-fashioned engineering. What I expect from Leica is new-fashioned engineering which to me means electronic as well as mechanical excellence plus a quality regime that assures it. When they fall short, it should be seen as something worthy of remark, not as something to be expected and accepted. I don’t think your readiness to make excuses for Leica does the company any favours. Leica sets itself high standards. We should pay it the compliment of doing the same.

And you don't know how assembly line production or computer programming works. No matter how careful you are, problems are ALWAYS going to manifest once a product is released. It is impossible to account for every situation and for user real-life use of a product. I have heard these EXACT same whines about many products over the years, and the answer is, "No need to get your knickers in a twist, boi, things will work out."  

 

I bought one of these a year after it came out because I waited for the programming problems with the ECU to be fixed. Great bike. Had some typically Italian quirks, but the quirks were a lot worse when it was released. You just have to have patience. http://www.mvagusta.com/en-us/motorcycles/f3-675/

Edited by fastfashn

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Sure, it's how these problems are dealt with when they arise that counts (Leica has a variable record on this); it's one thing to accept that glitches occur, and quite another to give Leica a free pass. I don't agree with the "crap quality" comment and other over-reactions, I do think we need to acknowledge this is a failure and Leica is where the buck stops.

 

I'm waiting and watching with interest and I have confidence Leica will sort it out. The SL release has given me faith that Leica has upped its game - it needed to.

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Blah. Blah. Blah. Seriously, blah. My 944 Turbo ('86) had to be recalled because the exhaust manifold on the turbo side would crack because Porsche hadn't taken thermal expansion into account when they made the casting. One of the first fly-by-wire Airbus airliners smashed straight into a forest AT AN AIR SHOW because the computer didn't like the pilot's inputs. Cry me a river, euston, stuff happens. See: Apollo 1

 

One of my early digital Oly cameras died after a few months and I went to Oly to get it replaced, but they didn't make that camera anymore, at all, so they had to send me a completely different model. Welcome to the New Order.

 

Sorry fastfashn, but your attitude really does stink.

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hey fastfashn, everyone is entitled to their own opinion just like you are but your comments are rude and childish. keep it classy and spare us the snide remarks.

Why? I'm really curious about this. If you don't know anything about how camera electronics work, or systems, or production, or programming, why is your opinion needed or valid?

 

What we have here are a bunch of rumor-monger trolls that are trying to tell Leica what do with no information, lots of missing variables, and a generally piss-poor attitude. If Leica was in the wrong, that's one thing, but early production glitches? That's a norm. That happens.

 

The problem with the 'net is that it makes people with backgrounds in nothing but video games and an opinion in everything believe that they are equal or superior to people who have actually worked in the relevant fields. You really aren't.

 

This glitch will be fixed, despite the doomsayers, and the rabid weasels, and the whiners.

 

"I'm Scottish... Ohhhh, I'm Scottish! I can complain! I can REALLY complain now!" - The Doctor 

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1) "...did not check thoroughly how old Visoflex works with new TL2." Wrong. A hardware fault doesn't always manifest in testing because no one sets out an entire run of, say, 10000 widgets, and runs them all for a week. There isn't room for that on the test benches, it's expensive, and generally useless.

2) "...did not update the old Visoflex" That's because it's the same one being used on the M10 and there's nothing wrong with it.

3) "got rid of flash, but did not itegrate an EVF" It's spelled, integrate, and a lot of us are doing fine without.

 

1) Too small pool of testers, and current testers are creatures of old habits. They must have more testers, and all need to receive all possible accessories and two production cameras, not pre-production cameras, where things may get wrong again.

2) All the same, Leica could stick with original T, and not upgrade it ever. I mean, thanks for the laughs.

3) Autocorrect doens't work in this browser plus l-forum combintion. But you can raed these lines regardlss, and still draw forcd conclusn.

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1) Too small pool of testers, and current testers are creatures of old habits. They must have more testers, and all need to receive all possible accessories and two production cameras, not pre-production cameras, where things may get wrong again.

2) All the same, Leica could stick with original T, and not upgrade it ever. I mean, thanks for the laughs.

3) Autocorrect doens't work in this browser plus l-forum combintion. But you can raed these lines regardlss, and still draw forcd conclusn.

 

1) You have NO idea how actually large or small the pool was. Are you directly involved, or did Leica call you and give you a scoop? "Hey, pally, youse knows we has only like three field-testers, and we wants youse to shut your mouth about it, Capiche?

2) boring

3) You need autocorrect?

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3) Autocorrect doens't work in this browser plus l-forum combintion. But you can raed these lines regardlss, and still draw forcd conclusn.

Try Grammarly - works flawlessly on this forum. Otherwise, Neil can help you out.

 

 

 

1) Too small pool of testers, and current testers are creatures of old habits. They must have more testers, and all need to receive all possible accessories and two production cameras, not pre-production cameras, where things may get wrong again.

 

Errr... I find it quite difficult to see how a beta-tester can have anything but a pre-production camera. After all, production only starts after beta-testing.

As for the pool of beta-testers, to me they appear to be a group of quite competent people. Jono is a prime example. The group is quite large and diverse, I think your perception is more based on supposition than on facts.

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