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I was expecting an updated Visoflex for the new generation of cameras. It was due for an honest update. Pity it did not come, but these events may force Wetzlar to be more pre-emptive and change the attitude in regards to EVFs. They

  1. got rid of flash, but did not itegrate an EVF, 
  2. did not update the old Visoflex, and
  3. did not check thoroughly how old Visoflex works with new TL2.

Ouch.

 

Now they stop the sales of the most important new camera. I wonder, why they halted the sales of the TL2, instead of issuing a warning about the old Visoflex? 

Edited by Apoqualia

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Just an update.

 

I just heard back from the Leica Store at Fullerton in Singapore.  They confirmed that it appears to be a problem related to the Visoflex and it's interaction with the TL2.  Since they don't have a date by when the issue can be fixed, they have offered that I can either return what I bought for a credit towards a future purchase after the problem is fixed or simply for a full refund.  In either case I will have priority when the problem is resolved and they re-start sales.

 

I think that given the situation this is a reasonable proposal.  I'm opting for a refund for the time being.

 

- Vikas

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A complete PITA to be honest, but you can't ask for better than what you've been offered. It allows you to stay, or walk away, not sure what I'd do, but at least you have finality.

Hopefully for Leica's sake they will resolve this, soon. I'm sure they will.

Gary

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A complete PITA to be honest, but you can't ask for better than what you've been offered. It allows you to stay, or walk away, not sure what I'd do, but at least you have finality.

Hopefully for Leica's sake they will resolve this, soon. I'm sure they will.

Gary

I PITA and a PITY. It's a fine camera.

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My TL2 & Visoflex work properly. However, I do not attached it to the camera permanently. I will remove the Visoflex after use.

Edited by cwcheung

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maybe there is more to it than just the vflex

 

 

"Now they stop the sales of the most important new camera. I wonder, why they halted the sales of the TL2, instead of issuing a warning about the old Visoflex?"

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The impression I got was that the problem was the way the Camera responded to the Visoflx.  After all it works fine with the T and M10.

 

Whether all dealers have suspended sales I don't really know, but I would assume so.

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I stand behind my repeated complaints that this Visoflex is a POS for the price.

Color tearing sequential panel.

Behind-the-curve blackout.

On the X 113 the GPS never worked despite being advertised and included in the menu.

On the TL2 it apparently can brick the camera?

Ridiculous.

It's a shame they are so intent on sticking it on every camera in the last 4 years.

 

While my TL2 worked the Visoflex was much much more responsive on the TL2. Blackout was very short. Like a Fuji XT2 or XPro2.

 

GPS works just fine on my M10 and T.

 

It was the processing power of the older cameras that was the issue, not the 020.

 

Gordon

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The impression I got was that the problem was the way the Camera responded to the Visoflx.  After all it works fine with the T and M10.

 

Whether all dealers have suspended sales I don't really know, but I would assume so.

 

 

 

We cannot and should not 'assume' that 'all dealers have suspended TL2 sales' … unless there is an official announcement from Leica Camera AG.

 

So far I have not seen such an announcement. 

 

My Viso is working perfectly OK on the TL2 so until I'm advised to stop using I'll continue to use it.  My Viso is at least 2 years old. 

 

Yesterday I used the TL2 with legacy lenses and with the Viso attached for 3 hours and approx. 150 exposures … no problems apart from the image magnification not functioning … but that seems to have cleared and this morning it's OK.  No idea why the TL2 image mag. facility would not work yesterday … I ended up switching to the original Leica T back-up camera as needed the image mag. function. 

 

There was no indication of the TL2 'freeze' anomaly occurring in the two beta testers' reviews I've read i.e. Jono's and Thorsten's .. and they likely did not use just one TL2 camera and Viso.

 

dunk

Edited by dkCambridgeshire

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There is now an official statement on the Leica web site:

 

Important Information from Leica Camera AG

When using the Leica TL2 with an external electronic viewfinder (Visoflex) a defect may occur that could stop the camera from working. Regardless of whether this defect affects your camera, we suggest you contact the Leica dealer you purchased it from. The trust our customers place in Leica Camera and our products is extremely important to us and we deeply regret this situation. You can rely on Leica Camera to do its utmost to resolve this issue as soon as possible.

 

https://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-Leica/Leica-News/Global/2017/Important-Information-from-Leica-Camera-AG

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There is now an official statement on the Leica web site:

 

Important Information from Leica Camera AG

When using the Leica TL2 with an external electronic viewfinder (Visoflex) a defect may occur that could stop the camera from working. Regardless of whether this defect affects your camera, we suggest you contact the Leica dealer you purchased it from. The trust our customers place in Leica Camera and our products is extremely important to us and we deeply regret this situation. You can rely on Leica Camera to do its utmost to resolve this issue as soon as possible.

 

https://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-Leica/Leica-News/Global/2017/Important-Information-from-Leica-Camera-AG

 

 

 

 

I just contacted Ffordes from whom I bought the TL2 and was advised;

 

'Continue to use the camera if you are happy with it but Leica will replace it in due course … '

 

So I asked if Leica are replacing all TL2 cameras and the answer was, 'Yes …' 

 

So I asked , "Can I have a black model next time please ?' … and was advised to request same via email.

 

Looks as if all TL2 cameras sold to date will be replaced … regardless of whether they have the 'freeze' lurgy.

 

I'll continue to use mine … no point in not using it as it will be replaced.

 

No doubt someone's head will be on the chopping block … will be an enormous logistical exercise to recall all TL2 cameras sold and replace them .

 

But we still do not know what's caused this anomaly ???  

 

At least Leica are looking after their customers … let's hope the usual naysayers do not try and make too much box office out of this situation … but that's a big hope !

 

dunk 

Edited by dkCambridgeshire

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I was expecting an updated Visoflex for the new generation of cameras. It was due for an honest update. Pity it did not come, but these events may force Wetzlar to be more pre-emptive and change the attitude in regards to EVFs. They

  1. got rid of flash, but did not itegrate an EVF, 
  2. did not update the old Visoflex, and
  3. did not check thoroughly how old Visoflex works with new TL2.

Ouch.

 

Now they stop the sales of the most important new camera. I wonder, why they halted the sales of the TL2, instead of issuing a warning about the old Visoflex? 

1) "...did not check thoroughly how old Visoflex works with new TL2." Wrong. A hardware fault doesn't always manifest in testing because no one sets out an entire run of, say, 10000 widgets, and runs them all for a week. There isn't room for that on the test benches, it's expensive, and generally useless.

2) "...did not update the old Visoflex" That's because it's the same one being used on the M10 and there's nothing wrong with it.

3) "got rid of flash, but did not itegrate an EVF" It's spelled, integrate, and a lot of us are doing fine without.

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It looks like I'll be returning mine from PopFlash. If Leica can confirm fast that it is fixable via firmware, then that would be sweet. If it is a hardware related issue then it is more difficult.

 

I wonder what the non-Leica users are saying now? Pitch-folks are out.

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 … will be an enormous logistical exercise to recall all TL2 cameras sold and replace them .

 

 

Well, they could seek some tips from Samsung... 

 

At least, there was no reports of TL2 bodies catching fire. The beast is well behaved and knows how to die without inducing collateral damages. 

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It looks like I'll be returning mine from PopFlash. If Leica can confirm fast that it is fixable via firmware, then that would be sweet. If it is a hardware related issue then it is more difficult.

 

I wonder what the non-Leica users are saying now? Pitch-folks are out.

"I wonder what the non-Leica users are saying now?" Who gives a rat's ass? Seriously. 

 

For example, look at this:

 

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/bmw-r1200gs-fork-stanchion-recall/

 

Machines fail. Building things rapidly on a production line means that lots of things will fail identically if there is a problem. Frak, man, every M8 suffered from multiple issues, lockups, IR filter problems, slow performance. 

Edited by fastfashn

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My car is over three years old - but there is a general recall because it may fail to start the engine and deplete the drive battery, freezing it. Wrong type of spark plugs and ECU firmware issues. Welcome to the electronic age of overcomplicated  machines, folks... 

 

At least Leica is proactive and responsive. (remember Canon's denial of AF problems on the  1D series, Nikon's court fight over sensor spots?)

Having said that, we would like "our" products to be flawless, especially at the price, but reality is a harsh world.

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Leica - one of the least reliable camera company. Sad really. Good customer service is not a bonus for crap quality control or design issue.

 

Hardly crap quality.  In all the (many) Leica cameras I have owned I have had only two problems.

1. The infrared sensitivity issue on the Leica M8, which was not important for me so I didn't bother with it.

2. The Leica TL2 going dead, which Leica have taken back and are crediting a full refund to my credit card.

 

Over lunch I've been listening to horror consumer stories from two friends and I think I'm in good shape with Leica.

 

- Vikas

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