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Leica employs beta testers on whom forum members rely and reading their reviews and deciding to buy e.g. the TL2 (as I did) is in no way impulsive … or buying blind.

 

I find your remark offensive and ill-considered.

 

dunk

There have been enough issues with new Leica products to demonstrate that if you buy as soon as a new product is released you may find there are issues with it that Leica will have to address. It's the risk you take by being an early adopter.

 

The beta testers managed to let the M8 IR problem through. It's was only after purchasers reported wierd colours that the real problem came to light.

 

I think it's wise to hold back from buying any new products until some 'real world' reports from paying customers have been seen.

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I imagine being a moderator is a voluntary, unpaid position.

They are (voluntary and unpaid). They are forum members first and allowed to express their personal opinions like the rest of us AFAIK.

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There have been enough issues with new Leica products to demonstrate that if you buy as soon as a new product is released you may find there are issues with it that Leica will have to address. It's the risk you take by being an early adopter.

 

The beta testers managed to let the M8 IR problem through. It's was only after purchasers reported wierd colours that the real problem came to light.

 

I think it's wise to hold back from buying any new products until some 'real world' reports from paying customers have been seen.

 

 

True ... but if Leica enthusiasts buy a new Leica product after reading test reports / reviews form beta testers and reviewers then they are not buying on impulse … or buying blind … as implied by the previous post's unreasonable remark which does cast dispersions on those who have allegedly bought the TL2 impetuously. By reading such reviews they take reasonable steps to be reasonably sure the product is OK … which is the reasonable and sensible way to proceed … and far from impulsive. 

 

dunk 

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A fix for the TL is expected next week. I'm assuming it will be another week then before the local Leica Store re-stocks the corrected cameras. I've asked the store hold on and not credit back my money to the card and just let me have the camera as soon as they receive the stock. I know a lot of excitement has been generated by this but I think this is a sfast resolution to a problem.

 

The problem should not have occurred but these things do from time to time. Leica reacted fast and responsibly.

 

- Vikas

 

HI There Vikas

I don't believe that the cameras will need correcting if they haven't gone wrong (like yours certainly did). . . Which also means that people who have cameras which are still working will not need to exchange them. As I understand it a firmware update will stop the issue from reoccurring.

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Don't be perverse - the implication was clear. Your "modus operandi" is "to gather some information on items that [you] purchase before [you] do so" and very right and proper too. Meanwhile, the rest of us, and by clear implication anyone who has bought a TL2, buy "impulsively and blind", and very silly we are too!

Your words (and thoughts), not mine...

Of course you are silly - you should have bought a Sony instead, everybody knows that

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The IR issue was a bit different - the beta-testers were told  to disregard colour shifts, as the firmware was not yet finalized in that respect, Sean Reid commented on it afterwards.

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Your words (and thoughts), not mine...

Of course you are silly - you should have bought a Sony instead, everybody knows that

Apology accepted.

 

I think it's a bit harsh (someone's comment above, not Jaap) to suggest that Leica releases are always defective. I speak for myself - my TL2 is working flawlessly. It also sounds like the EVF problem isn't universal - Jono and others apparently used the EVF without issue.

 

I'm not making small of this, but if you follow what Leica has been saying, the sky is not falling. They're doing the right thing, aren't they? This is an improvement on the head in the sand, deny the problem response we had with the M9 sensor. By all means hold off buying new releases of new products - that's not unique to Leica.

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The IR issue was a bit different - the beta-testers were told to disregard colour shifts, as the firmware was not yet finalized in that respect, Sean Reid commented on it afterwards.

I remember buying an issue of BJP because they had a first review of the M8. I noticed the purple blacks straight away in the sample images but as there was no mention of colour issues in the report I assumed it was poor magazine printing!

 

Anyway, seems the TL2 fix will be quite simple & does not require a product recall as someone here claimed!

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Apology accepted.

 

I think it's a bit harsh (someone's comment above, not Jaap) to suggest that Leica releases are always defective. I speak for myself - my TL2 is working flawlessly. It also sounds like the EVF problem isn't universal - Jono and others apparently used the EVF without issue.

 

I'm not making small of this, but if you follow what Leica has been saying, the sky is not falling. They're doing the right thing, aren't they? This is an improvement on the head in the sand, deny the problem response we had with the M9 sensor. By all means hold off buying new releases of new products - that's not unique to Leica.

Whatever you say, John.

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Well, I tend to gather some info on items that I purchase before I do so... Buying impulsively and blind does not work very well in my experience.

 

 

Of course I gather information and reviews and even tested it before buying into anything Leica maybe except the M Monochrom as I really want the BW monochrome feel... which later I only know that there's a delimitation issue with its sensor, please do advise me how to gather this kind of information before I purchase?

 

So, I don't know why you belittled me as someone who buy stuff on impulse and not through sensible research? This kind of mentality is really strange...

 

And, English is not my first language so please don't pick on the wording I use.

Edited by xiaubauu2009

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Of course I gather information and reviews and even tested it before buying into anything Leica maybe except the M Monochrom as I really want the BW monochrome feel... which later I only know that there's a delimitation issue with its sensor, please do advise me how to gather this kind of information before I purchase?

 

So, I don't know why you belittled me as someone who buy stuff on impulse and not through sensible research? This kind of mentality is really strange...

 

And, English is not my first language so please don't pick on the wording I use.

 

 

 

Those of us who were annoyed by the comment have stated our view so maybe time to 'make allowances', draw a line under it, and look forward to the official announcement regarding the proposed TL2 firmware update.

 

dunk  

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From the German Forum:

 

Ich will nicht wieder in den Geruch kommen, den Fehler kleinzureden.
Trotzdem habe ich eine andere Sicht auf die Dinge


Genau dieser Fehler nicht und auch nicht mit so unmittelbaren Folgen, aber hier eine kleine Auflistung von anderen namhaften Herstellern aus den letzten Jahren:

Verschluss von D750 Defekt
http://www.photoscala.de/2017/07/14/nikon-weitere-exemplare-der-d750-mit-fehlerhaftem-verschluss/

D600 als Staubfänger / ÖL FLecken auf Sensor
http://www.photoscala.de/2014/02/26/die-nikon-d600-und-der-staub-ii/

750D und 760D Sensor Problem bei 30% der Kameras
http://www.photografix-magazin.de/blog/2015/05/09/canon-eos-750d-760d-offizielle-stellungnahme-zum-sensor-problem/

650D Rückruf wegen Farbänderung der Griffe / Gummi kann Hautirriationen hervorrufen und Canon warnt davor, die Kameras weiter zu benutzen.
http://www.cleankids.de/2012/08/15/rueckruf-canon-weitet-den-rueckruf-der-eos-650d-aus/27184

Canon has recalled some EOS-1D X, EOS-1D C digital SLRs Probleme mit Antrieb
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2013/06/18/pros-take-note-canon-has-recalled-some-eos-1d-x-eos-1d-c-digital-slrs

Plus aktuell die X-T2 mit Purple Grid und die PEN-F, die zu heiß wurde (mittlerweile per FW gefixt).

Wie Philipp schreibt: Peinlicher Fehler bei der Leica TL2, vergleichbares leisten sich aber auch andere Hersteller.
Und wenn man sich betrachtet, wie offensiv die Hersteller mit den Probleme umgegangen sind, rangiert Leica bestimmt nicht am Ende des Feldes...


Wie schon geschrieben: Es waren drei Faktoren, die zusammenkommen musste, der Sucher war nur einer.

Andreas


Cleaned up Google translate:


 

I do not want to be suspected of belittling the mistake.
Nevertheless, I have a different view of things


Not exactly this error nor with such immediate consequences, but here is a small list of other well-known manufacturers over the last years:

Shutter of D750 defect
D600 as dust catcher / oil spots on sensor

750D and 760D sensor problem with 30% of the cameras


650D Recall due to color changes of the handles / rubber can cause skin irritation and Canon warns against using the cameras further.


Canon has recalled some EOS-1D X, EOS-1D C digital SLRs problems with drive problems


Plus currently the X-T2 with Purple Grid and the PEN-F, which became too hot (meanwhile fixed by FW).

As Philipp writes: An embarrassing fault with the Leica TL2, but comparable to other manufacturers.
And if you look at how other manufacturers handle the problems, Leica definitely does not rank at the end of the field ...


As already written: There were three factors that had to come together,the EVF was only one.

Andreas

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This is so defensive it’s embarrassing. I am 100% certain that Leica’s production managers set their quality sights a lot higher than merely doing no worse than anyone else. I wouldn’t be a Leica customer if I didn’t believe that they were at least trying.

Edited by euston

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Fair point, Robert. I fear reality is not as easily bent to one's wishes, though.

I think the QC question is insoluble, given the difference in production methods, however the way Leica solves the inevitable problems is quite good.

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I can only speak as I find, Jaap. I've never had a Leica camera body that was defective on arrival. Nor a Pentax come to that. I don't put it down to luck. I believe I chose well.

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This is so defensive it’s embarrassing. I am 100% certain that Leica’s production managers set their quality sights a lot higher than merely doing no worse than anyone else. I wouldn’t be a Leica customer if I didn’t believe that they were at least trying.

 

Hi Robert

I hope you're well

I agree that this is embarrassing, but if we are to believe what is being said then this is an issue with hardware tolerances combined with a particular combination of settings and a firmware issue and this changed between the test cameras and the production cameras . . . it will not require a recall and it should be fixed within a day or so. 

Leica reported the issue really quickly, and have apparently found what causes the problem - they've given temporary advice to existing users so that their cameras won't break and promise a firmware update to fix the issue in the next few days and a promise to replace cameras for those affected (or issue a refund).

 

Assuming that all this is correct then I don't think there is any comparison between this and the other recalls mentioned above . . . do you?

Edited by jonoslack

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