Leitz E55 #13335 vs #13357 polarizing filters

[CaptainYooh]

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Hey guys,  need some advice selecting an E55 polarizing filter for Elmarit-M 21mm / 2.8 ASPH.  Serial #388xxxx. 

 

Options:

1. Leitz #13335
2. Leitz #13357
3. B+W E55 C-POL

Prices are in the same ballpark, so not a big concern.  What are are differences between the three in quality/darkness/ease of use and, most importantly, fit under the shade of this lens?

 

Please and thanks.

[CaptainYooh]

Anyone?

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[jaapv]

Yes - don't use a polarizing filter on a wideangle lens. The effect will be quite uneven. 

[CaptainYooh]

Thanks, Jaap. 

 

What is the difference between #13335 and #13357 filters?

[CaptainYooh]

My apologies for not letting this issue go; although the lack of response is a bit surprising considering the vast expert knowledge base at this forum.

 

There definitely are differences between these filters and I just want to find out why and how they are different:

 

Firstly, I found two very distinct variations of #13357 filter:

 

 

 

 

And only one #13335:

 

 

This forum does not have anything about these filters in the wiki section.  Leica does not have a lens accessories database published on the web either.

[jaapv]

I would say the only difference is the period of manufacture. The glass is the same but the rings have been tweaked.

How are you going to turn them if you want to fit a lens hood over them? I would suggest that the most narrow ring has the best chance of fitting under a hood.

[CaptainYooh]

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Although, this didn't seem to be of much interest to people, I thought I should post the response I've gotten from Leica to conclude the thread in case anyone else ever has the same question as I.  Also, I did borrow and try a B+W C-Pol filter on Elmarit-M 21mm / 2.8 ASPH and, as suggested by Japp and Eberhard, it produced uneven sky rendering.

 

 

Good morning,

 

the first generation of this circular-pol. filter was code 13 357, the second version was 13 353. There was no difference in those filters, as the specifications e.g. the glass have always been the same. Both filters belonged to the LEICA-R system which was discontinued in 2007. As the tread-pitch must be the same the filter will fit on your M-lens. But I wouldn’t recommend to use a pol-filter on a super-wide angle lens, but this is up to you. The vignetting will be too much, in my eyes. As the circ-pol. filter is a little bit higher than a e.g. UV-filter I’m not sure if the lens-hood will fit when adapting the filer. Unfortunately I’m not able to check this topic here, due to the lack of both items.  Due to our technician the shade will fit. Hoping this information will be helpful. Have a nice day

 

 

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards

Eberhard Jakob

Leica Camera AG

 

[MarkFrautschi]

I need an E55 Circular Polarizer for my #11135 21mm f/2.8 ASPH. that will fit under its lens hood / shade. Filter manufacturers do not seem to specify the outer diameter for their products, so I cannot tell if it fits the supplied #12592 A58 slip-on lens hood / shade, which has an inner diameter of approximately 57mm. The outer diameter of the filter therefore needs to be less than 57mm.

I used my digital caliper to make a few room temperature measurements. For extreme temperature work, I would recommend repeating these for the appropriate conditions:

The outer diameter of the grooves in the #11135 21mm f/2.8 ASPH. lens to fit the alignment tabs in the supplied #12592 A58 lens hood / shade is approximately 56.4mm.
The inner diameter of the tabs in the supplied #12592 A58 lens hood / shade is approximately 57mm. Any filter with a larger outer diameter will block the hood.

The outer diameter of the E55mm #13373 UVa filter is approximately 56.7mm. - The lens hood fits over the attached filter.

The outer diameter of the E55mm Hoya HD CIR-PL (circular polarizer) filter is approximately 58.4mm. - The lens hood does NOT fit over the attached filter. Hoya and B&H did not respond to my queries, so, I crossed my fingers and ordered this relatively inexpensive filter.

I seek a circular polarizer that fits under the #12592 hood. Repeating my cross fingers exercise will not be inexpensive with B+W or Leica. I do not expect to be able to rotate the filter while it is under the hood.

If you have an E55mm circular polarizing filter and would not mind measuring the outer diameter with a caliper I would greatly appreciate your posting the measurement.

p.s.

For what it is worth, last year I was successful replacing the separating 2mm thick glass from my (introduced in 1939) 13352 A42 (for E39mm) Swing-Out Polarizer with the 1mm thick glass from an inexpensive Hoya E46mm Linear Polarizer Filter B-46PL-GB. This was not easy, requiring making a dedicated safe, high-torque, spanner pin to disassemble the unit while a solvent dissolved the glue holding it together. Making up for the missing 1 mm of glass thickness was the final challenge. Lacking a machine shop to make a brass spacer ring, I ended up doing it with a bead of liquid nail adhesive from a local hardware store, wiping excess away from the front of the unit as the adhesive dried, leaving none visible. Please do not ask for the steps. Some I found online. Some I had to invent. This works well on my E39 threaded lenses including the first version of the #11606 28mm f/2.8 ASPH., a lens for which it was never designed, however, there is the barest vignetting in the extreme corners, when this lens is stopped down. I find this easier to carry, fit and use than the current #13356 Universal Top (Linear) Glass Polarizer Filter, and its set of step-down rings, which was €500 the last time I checked.

[MarkFrautschi]

I found a Japanese seller on eBay who claims the #13357 will fit the Elmarit-M 21mm f/2.8 ASPH.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-55mm-Polarizer-P-cir-Polarizing-Filter-Black-13357-for-Leica-M21-2-8/192833685759

Unfortunately, they do not specify whether the hood fits over the filter.

I still need an answer.

I ordered a $4 (not a typo) including shipping from Adorama in E55. These must be being discontinued. I wonder why. If the mount fits, perhaps I can transplant the glass from an E55 Hoya, a much simpler operation than the rebuild of the #13352 I mentioned above. This may help me, but, it will be useful to few, if any, others, unfortunately.

https://www.adorama.com/RecommendFor/mfcp55t.html

Be well,

 

Mark

[MarkFrautschi]

Some updates:

The $4 titanium E55 filter arrived from Adorama and does not clear the lens hood. Otherwise it is fine. The $25 #13357 (the left hand variant in the above photos) also arrived from Adorama in perfect condition and DOES fit under the hood (provided it is the only filter mounted), however due to the radial thickness of the mount, it vignettes the frame corners. So, two more failures. I will seek the #13335 and see what I can learn.

[MarkFrautschi]

I continue to strike out. A later version of the #13335 arrived and it is over 2mm too long. It also vignettes, like the earlier #13335, which barely fits under the hood. It measures 7.49mm along the optical axis, measuring from the end of the mounting threads. A seller of the #13335 kindly offered its 57.00mm exactly (no room to spare) outside diameter. Now I have troubled him again for the length. No one can fit the lens to a 21mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M ASPH. that they have lying around to see if it vignettes or not. I attach a summary of what I know thus far.

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[sblutter]

This may be old - but I thought Leica doesn't make their own pola & other filters, were (are?) made by B&W using Leica specs

[MarkFrautschi]

The Leica 13047 is Made in Japan. B+W was acquired by Schneider-Kreuznach and apparently remains Made in Germany. I do not know who sets the specifications. Filters are extremely simple and therefore easy to manufacture at high quality inexpensively. It is difficult to measure a correlation between quality, performance and price in most cases. Perhaps an interesting exception are the Käsemann series of filters from B+W which include a circular polarizer. These have measurably lower light loss than ordinary linear or circular polarizers. Whether these fit under the 12592 hood and vignette the 11135 lens remains an open question. I have ordered a 13335 and will report if that should meet the three requirements or not.

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[MarkFrautschi]

Alas, the #13335 also does not work. Please see the attached and updated spreadsheet, FWIW.

Thanks to a suggestion from Juho Leppanen of Kameratori (Camerastore) and Camera Rescue in Helsinki, I tried a slim Heliopan multicoated circular polarizer and this fit and works perfectly under the supplied #12592 lens shade. (This shade lacks the little angled wheel that allows the filter to be rotated while the shade is attached, as appeared on similar shades for R-Series lenses. Not much use in the film era, granted, but sure would be nice for digital cameras with live view.) Heliopan also makes a non-slim version, which is slightly too long under the shade, by approximately 0.3mm. So close and yet so far. Someone with a lathe could easily turn down that 0.4 mm, burnish, paint, etc., and have a working filter.

The difference, of course, between the slim and non-slim versions is that the slim version lacks the front threads, so, I can not attach a lens cap when I am using it on the Summicron-M 90mm f/2.0. Although the list price of the slim version is higher, on Amazon the slim sells for about half what the regular version costs for the same multicoated Schott glass.

I attach an updated version of my spreadsheet, FWIW.

I am not sure whether to carry both the slim and non-slim versions of these or some other filters, or, to keep looking for a dual threaded version that fits under the #12592 lens hood. The only way to obtain measurements is to make them myself, which means I order a filter, see if it fits, return it if it does not, keeping only the measurements. That is a lot of human effort and expense when one considers that the kind vendors are put to so much work for which they earn no money.

This situation would be much improved if the manufacturers would publish the necessary measurements for their products.

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Be well,

 

Mark