jmahto Posted November 20, 2015 Share #2041 Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) M262 is 100 grams lighter (compared to M240+EVF). Edited November 20, 2015 by jmahto Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Hi jmahto, Take a look here NEW M.. This year.. This Fall.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Tmuussoni Posted November 20, 2015 Share #2042 Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I hope the 262 sets the direction for Leica's new M, with two streams of M, one that keeps the pure photography rangefinder as the core and one that offers the functionality that some desire. The SL in my view shows the way Leica re moving and I'm very encouraged, this fills a gap that took me while to appreciate (even though I don't want one) I can see the opportunity for two model streams for the new M, one that focuses on pure rangefinder photography with selective technology support, without video, automation and other unnecessary features allowing weight and size to come to the forefront . The other carries on from where the M240 left off My perfect M has always been one that is M6 size and weight, a display size of the M9 or smaller (but higher quality) with a very clever glass viewfinder that intgrates with electronic support to allow wide angle lenses to be used without additional viewfinders. But then that's just me I would be OK with this as well. Two separate cameras. I am definitely in the boat which hopes to carry the tradition where M 240 left off. I would like to think the majority would agree with me. I consider Live view and EVF absolute mandatory accessories. I call it standard accessories in modern digital cameras. It does not matter it happens to be a digital rangefinder camera nor that the camera manufacturer is Leica. There are many situations where mechanical rangefinder approaches it's limits for accurate focusing and framing: such as shooting wide open with lenses like Lux 75, AA 90, Noctilux 50 or some classic lenses with nasty focus shifts. Or if you want to use graduated filters like me. EVF and live view can be a lifesaver. Adjusting body and focus is also a thousand fold easier with live view. And we all know how much of a pain it is to send the body for adjustment. And yet I don't believe it for a second those features necessarily lead to any significant increased mass to the body. Despite what Type 262 leads you to believe. So here is what I wish for the M 240 successor: Improved EVF (accessory). Higher resolution, less delay Improved High ISO (~ hopefully 1.5 -2 stops) Better dynamic range. Any increase is always welcome! New sensor. Slight increase in megapixels. For me ~30-36 megapixels would be perfect. Personal dream: Now imagine if Leica could get their hands on BSI sensor tech a la Sony A7r II style. It would pretty much eliminate the need for software corrections for color shadings and removing vignetting. I think that would be quite a leap forward for Leica. Perhaps lens design for wide angles would also be easier for digital? Read out speeds would also increase drastically. Although realistically speaking this is probably expected the following generation after Type 240 successor (2019-2020?)... Even more quiet shutter Improved live view. Better exposure preview, less delay, ability to move focus point when zoomed in Built-in GPS and Wi-Fi. However, only if this should not come in at the cost of increased body mass/size Body size and weight close to M9 (not more than 600 g). I understand M6 size is probably a pipe dream and not easily achievable. Bulb mode! Please! SL has it, so please give it to M as well. For me the most significant feature missing in M type 240... Personal wish: ability to use hot shoe and EVF at same time eliminating the need to buy the super expensive Multifunctional Handgrip M. Not sure how to solve this one. For me the multifunctional handgrip is above my pay grade. Same kind of video button as type 240 has. Just make it programmable for those who do not need Video My opinion about frame selector is indifferent Edited November 20, 2015 by Tmuussoni 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2043 Posted November 21, 2015 Luigi this is another M (an M-E replacement effectively) but not the new M240 replacement.....I expect that is more likely to appear in time for photokina 2016 (in the meantime there is the Typ 240 a la carte program to keep people interested). Ok, ok... ... not the M240 replacement... but IS a new M (not simply a "special edition" or a "configurable / a la carte" offering) : Edward guessed right, I keep my opinion. (I like to acknowledge his merit also because in 2008, several months before the S2 intro, when in the Forum people used to discuss about the possibility of a new "Digital R", I made a post speculating that if they would make one "it could be more than 24x36 " ... and none complimented me months after ) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2044 Posted November 21, 2015 ....and none complimented me months after ) the true prophet knows his own value. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2045 Posted November 21, 2015 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2046 Posted November 21, 2015 I have a hard time imagining Leica will release a new M with higher resolution than the SL. I think we should expect the same senor, which for me will be good enough. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2047 Posted November 21, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) +1 but how about more demanding users? Will they wait really 4 more years with the same pixel count as soon to be released smartphones? Leica had better launch a serious SL2 asap if they don't want to sound disconnected from the reality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2048 Posted November 21, 2015 I'm happy with 24mp. If it goes up, I won't complain, but it's nowhere near top priority for me. It allows easier cropping, but it takes more computer power and storage: swings and roundabouts. Higher ISO, higher DR and fully electronic shutter option are at the top of my list. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2049 Posted November 21, 2015 +1 but how about more demanding users? Will they wait really 4 more years with the same pixel count as soon to be released smartphones? Leica had better launch a serious SL2 asap if they don't want to sound disconnected from the reality. +1 but how about more demanding users? Will they wait really 4 more years with the same pixel count as soon to be released smartphones? Leica had better launch a serious SL2 asap if they don't want to sound disconnected from the reality. Which demanding users do you mean. I don't know any photografer who needs a camera with more than 24 Mp to make a print bigger than 4 meter, but this is an old discussion I suppose. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2050 Posted November 21, 2015 Edward guessed right, I keep my opinion. Let’s not re-write history. When Edward started this rumour, everyone assumed it was about a successor of the M (Typ 240), not just some variant based on the existing hardware plaform like the M-P, M Monochrom, or M60. And I think that Edward honestly believed this himself. He had probably picked up something about the SL and mistook it to refer to the M system. Lavidaleica made the same mistake. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2051 Posted November 21, 2015 Which demanding users do you mean. I don't know any photografer who needs a camera with more than 24 Mp to make a print bigger than 4 meter, but this is an old discussion I suppose. More demanding users? People unwilling to pay $7K+ for a 24MP camera when some smartphones will have the same pixel count i guess... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2052 Posted November 21, 2015 Basing a purchase or the purchasing price on the pixel count alone is about as useful as basing it on the specific weight of a camera. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2053 Posted November 21, 2015 If you want to talk weight you can have, for the weight of the SL, an Alpa, lens and 60 or 80MP professionnal digital back. And as say Leica if you can pay Soo you can also pay the triple... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2054 Posted November 21, 2015 I wonder if the R system debacle was not caused by such a reasoning in total or in part. Just a question as i don't recall the historical reasons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2055 Posted November 21, 2015 I have a hard time imagining Leica will release a new M with higher resolution than the SL. I think we should expect the same senor, which for me will be good enough. Isn't this the problem? By staggering release years (which is entirely understandable), Leica either leap frogs the other models, thereby raising the ire of S and SL owners and making its lineup lack coherence (M camera with more MP than the S), or people will fret that the M is ho-hum (the new M has the "old" sensor and EVF from the SL). It wouldn't really bother me particularly either, but I see complaints coming ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2056 Posted November 21, 2015 It appears to me that the M-SL comparison here assumes a hierarchy that does not exist. Each is a separate line, and features of one may well be not those of the other. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2057 Posted November 21, 2015 More demanding users? People unwilling to pay $7K+ for a 24MP camera when some smartphones will have the same pixel count i guess... The same people who did not buy Leica's the last twenty years, when film was everywhere the same , but lenses were not? It was never about the sensor quality only, that people did not buy Leica. A 36 Mp sensor is great of course, but no reson not to buy a Leica. It's about the whole picture I believe. A Leica M resonably priced never existed and never will I'm afraid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2058 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) It appears to me that the M-SL comparison here assumes a hierarchy that does not exist. Each is a separate line, and features of one may well be not those of the other. How do you work that out? The hierarchy, I mean. They use the same sensor, both 35mm, both use EVF etc. I've always considered them alternatives. They're even priced the same. Sure, the features are different. That's the point. The issue I raise is not hierarchy, but that by releasing the next M a year later (assuming it is a year), it will either be using "old hat" tech from the SL, or it will be "better", rather spoiling the suggestion that these are alternatives - one will always be perceived as better than the other. Maybe I'm jumping at shadows. Edited November 21, 2015 by IkarusJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2059 Posted November 21, 2015 Agree. Some in this thread seem to feel that the SL, being the "higher" camera should have the most megapixels. I think they are distict lines, not distinguished by their level, but by their concept. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted November 21, 2015 Share #2060 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Paulus: "A Leica M reasonably priced never existed and never will I'm afraid". Agreed... The first Leica in my family was bought in the late twenties by my Grandfather... My father, who is now nearly 90, remembers it clearly. It cost more than their family house, bought only ten or so years before! Unfortunately that camera is no longer in our family. If it was an early and un-upgraded Leica 1 it might have been quite valuable today. However, we will never know. It was bequeathed to a friend of his on his death, who was the secretary of the Camera Club founded by my Grandfather in the early thirties. My father never owned a Leica unfortunately, however, I bought my first Leica only a year or so ago... and it cost considerably less than my house. Maybe they are getting cheaper..! Edited November 21, 2015 by Bill Livingston Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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