CEO Alfred Schopf and future products

[stevelap]

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If Leica aren't prepared to design a new range of lenses then they're really stuck, unless they can somehow make AF lenses that will work with an M mount.

 

If not they've effectively closed the door on themselves to ever being able to offer anything other than the M and fixed lens cameras. That would seem rather stupid.

 

Indeed James, and I think Leica know this too, hence the explicit comments from the CEO (mentioned above and in his opening post by Geoff) regarding AF lenses.

 

There are hints being dropped even if some (not you ) aren't taking them (I mentioned earlier that some forum members are worth taking note of.........).

Edited November 29, 2013 by stevelap

[stuny]

Don't forget that Leica manufacturing capacity will increase when the new plant opens. I assume they've been hiring and training staff.

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[algrove]

All the new hires I saw on the bulletin board last Summer at the factory were very young and had little or no experience. Let's hope they do not put them on critical work assignments for many years.

[jdlaing]

All the new hires I saw on the bulletin board last Summer at the factory were very young and had little or no experience. Let's hope they do not put them on critical work assignments for many years.

 

You were young once and had no experience. Same as me.

[AlanG]

Leica now owns Sinar and we don't know how they ultimately plan to use those facilities and workers.

[algrove]

You were young once and had no experience. Same as me.

 

This is true however when I started out the company would have never put me on the Noctilux or APO50 equivalent line at the company. That would be many years after working with many senior co-workers.

[Paul J]

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Come on it's Leica for Pete's sake! Do you really think this will be FF? It will be APS-C and average.

[lct]

It will be APS and superb.

[rosuna]

It will be APS and superb.

 

It will be superb regardless the format size.

 

I hope this new system finds a public for it and Leica has backorders for many months!

[algrove]

If it will be APS-I do not care for it.

[AlanG]

It will be APS and superb.

 

Personally I think a really good compact APS system is all most people need. I can certainly imagine many photojournalists preferring such a system especially if it is a lot smaller and lighter (And if they can hold up against the sneers of their colleagues and others.) If Leica had a really nice compact APS AF system starting 10 years ago or so, they would have sold a ton of them. But I think the market has moved on from this and FF bodies are looked at as the "gold standard" for those who care about top quality.

 

An amateur photographer friend of mine recently told me that she wants to replace her Nikon APS DSLR with a full frame one. She didn't seem to have any good reasons for this. The fact that the A7 is reasonably priced, small and light, and can use small APS lenses if desired, pretty much says it all. That is what Canon and Nikon will be targeting for future models. (To compete against, but not necessarily to simply copy the A7.) And those sticking with APS and M4/3rds will be trying to up their game and/or lower prices to compete against FF.

 

I can't see why Leica would jump into the lower end now. Especially when they are not likely to bring anything better to the table. They don't make sensors or electronics and they haven't exactly been blazing new trails in AF performance or fast frame rates. They won't be able to sell $3,000 to $11,000 primes in that market since it would be cheaper to just buy an A7r and pretty.much any decent lens.

Edited December 2, 2013 by AlanG

[rosuna]

Personally I think a really good compact APS system is all most people need. I can certainly imagine many photojournalists preferring such a system especially if it is a lot smaller and lighter (And if they can hold up against the sneers of their colleagues and others.) If Leica had a really nice compact APS AF system starting 10 years ago or so, they would have sold a ton of them. But I think the market has moved on from this and FF bodies are looked at as the "gold standard" for those who care about top quality.

 

An amateur photographer friend of mine recently told me that she wants to replace her Nikon APS DSLR with a full frame one. She didn't seem to have any good reasons for this. The fact that the A7 is reasonably priced, small and light, and can use small APS lenses if desired, pretty much says it all. That is what Canon and Nikon will be targeting for future models. (To compete against, but not necessarily to simply copy the A7.) And those sticking with APS and M4/3rds will be trying to up their game and/or lower prices to compete against FF.

 

I can't see why Leica would jump into the lower end now. Especially when they are not likely to bring anything better to the table. They don't make sensors or electronics and they haven't exactly been blazing new trails in AF performance or fast frame rates. They won't be able to sell $3,000 to $11,000 primes in that market since it would be cheaper to just buy an A7r and pretty.much any decent lens.

 

The only logic behind this new system is to provide a different product in a different price range for the Leica Stores. This system is not designed for the general public. It is designed for the people coming to those luxury stores looking for a Leica camera. In normal photo stores, I agree with you, a Panasonic-made APS-C camera for $2,500 cannot sell in 2014.

[lct]

I don't know what soccer mom photogs will do but size is the key i feel. The new Sonys will be significantly bigger with their AF lenses. Add to this a quiet shutter and i won't even think to order a Sony personally. YMMV.

[lct]

...In normal photo stores, I agree with you, a Panasonic-made APS-C camera for $2,500 cannot sell in 2014.

But it is not the point of course. Small high quality AF lenses have a cost and the red dot doesn't come for free. Leica oblige.

[rosuna]

But it is not the point of course. Small high quality AF lenses have a cost and the red dot doesn't come for free. Leica oblige.

 

Lets see how sexy and Leica-like is the general design of the camera... the specification of the lenses, the general build quality (I hope better than that of the X1 & X2 cameras), the size (the X Vario has a relatively large zoom), and the price. But the competitors are very strong there, and Fuji is the strongest in mirrorless APS-C systems.

[lct]

Sure but our Leica lenses will fit perfectly on the Leica body hopefully. No vignetting, no smearing, exif data and so forth.

[rosuna]

Sure but our Leica lenses will fit perfectly on the Leica body hopefully. No vignetting, no smearing, exif data and so forth.

 

I don't have any interest in using Leica M lenses on a APS-C body. I think people interested in this will buy the Leica M or the Sony, this one at a lower price than the APS Leica body probably.

 

The X Vario is a great camera. If this is an indication of how good the new system is, that is good news. But only Leica knows if sales are meeting the expectations.

[mmradman]

All the new hires I saw on the bulletin board last Summer at the factory were very young and had little or no experience. Let's hope they do not put them on critical work assignments for many years.

 

As long as they learn fast how to tighten the strap lugs well they are welcome.

[rosuna]

For me, comparison with other candidate products was not even in the equation.

 

 

Experience of using the A7R coming from the 5D3: Sony Alpha/NEX E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

 

But then there are a lot of "buts"...

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[AlanG]

The only logic behind this new system is to provide a different product in a different price range for the Leica Stores. This system is not designed for the general public. It is designed for the people coming to those luxury stores looking for a Leica camera. In normal photo stores, I agree with you, a Panasonic-made APS-C camera for $2,500 cannot sell in 2014.

 

So this camera is for Leica stores only and won't be sold on-line or at other camera shops where it will be publicly reviewed and compared to other brands? Knowledgeable enthusiasts are not included in the intended market? Are there enough Leica stores for this strategy? Since the X-Vario and EVF are around $3300 I'd be surprised that a Leica body with built in hi res EVF and interchangeable lenses will sell for $2500 with a kit zoom unless it is made by Panasonic or another subcontractor.

 

Maybe enough people will just want a Leica so badly they will pay 4 times the price of a Nex 6 with zoom. ($750) What features or performance can they put into this camera to deserve that price? And if Leica can make the body and lenses for significantly less than $3000 and still have great quality, then how do they justify the price of the M system?

Edited December 2, 2013 by AlanG