MediaFotografie Posted March 16 Share #1 Posted March 16 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Now we have the beautiful SL3 with many improvements - but somehow still complete silence on lenses, especially those that are not relabelled. The APO-24 has been missing for over 5 years, and the last time really new complete lenses from Wetzlar were announced was in 2018. Many here invest in the SL system precisely because of special lenses, and that doesn't include relabelled L mounts. I think the reason for this is the upcoming renewal of the S system including a complete series of lenses: https://leicarumors.com/2024/03/14/new-leica-medium-format-camera-confirmed-again.aspx/ So we will have to wait even longer for real lens novelties. In my opinion, this is a pity and Wetzlar is getting bogged down with too many systems. Edited March 16 by MediaFotografie 3 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 16 Posted March 16 Hi MediaFotografie, Take a look here The future of the SL system and why there is no roadmap for lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
TeleElmar135mm Posted March 16 Share #2 Posted March 16 vor 33 Minuten schrieb MediaFotografie: Now we have the beautiful SL3 with many improvements - but somehow still complete silence on lenses, especially those that are not relabelled. The APO-24 has been missing for over 5 years, and the last time really new complete lenses from Wetzlar were announced was in 2018. Many here invest in the SL system precisely because of special lenses, and that doesn't include relabelled L mounts. I think the reason for this is the upcoming renewal of the S system including a complete series of lenses: https://leicarumors.com/2024/03/14/new-leica-medium-format-camera-confirmed-again.aspx/ So we will have to wait even longer for real lens novelties. In my opinion, this is a pity and Wetzlar is getting bogged down with too many systems. Agree. The biggst dissapointment for me is that the good idea called L-Alliance doesn't work great for lenses. Many lenses are multiple (50mm, 35mm, 24mm, 85-90mm) and many are missing. When Leica could not produce the hole segment like in R-Times (the R-time was a much longer period than the SL - and the beginning in the 60th was also slow), the alliance could be the answer. It works not bad for Sigma in some segments (14-24 mm - ok it's also rebranded) and some teles (500 mm, 150-600mm) but fixed focal long lenses like 135mm or 180mm are missing. The Sigma 70-200 was a ray of hope. Let's hope Leica fills the missing lenses (that will be the best) or can motivate the alliance to do this. The rebranding is in my opinion not the right way. Some like it, other not. I think over the years it will damage the brand. One the one hand it is not easy to build market leading lenses when other companies come very close ... on the other a 14-24 in APO made by Leica will be much bigger an more expensive and Leica will never make a profit with such a lens. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaFotografie Posted March 16 Author Share #3 Posted March 16 vor 7 Minuten schrieb TeleElmar135mm: Agree. The biggst dissapointment for me is that the good idea called L-Alliance doesn't work great for lenses. Many lenses are multiple (50mm, 35mm, 24mm, 85-90mm) and many are missing. When Leica could not produce the hole segment like in R-Times (the R-time was a much longer period than the SL - and the beginning in the 60th was also slow), the alliance could be the answer. It works not bad for Sigma in some segments (14-24 mm - ok it's also rebranded) and some teles (500 mm, 150-600mm) but fixed focal long lenses like 135mm or 180mm are missing. The Sigma 70-200 was a ray of hope. Let's hope Leica fills the missing lenses (that will be the best) or can motivate the alliance to do this. The rebranding is in my opinion not the right way. Some like it, other not. I think over the years it will damage the brand. One the one hand it is not easy to build market leading lenses when other companies come very close ... on the other a 14-24 in APO made by Leica will be much bigger an more expensive and Leica will never make a profit with such a lens. yes!!! Give up to count all the 50mm lenses in L Allianz but no modern 135mm like Nikon's Plenar, no 180mm etc. but we have the first fisheye (maybe a little strange one) and 500mm from Sigma Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted March 16 Share #4 Posted March 16 Roadmaps made sense when the system was new, but they are counter-productive for established systems. When was the last time you saw a roadmap for the M system? 11 minutes ago, MediaFotografie said: but no modern 135mm like Nikon's Plenar, Sigma's 135/1.8 is no slouch. It's widely considered to be a reference lens in cine mount, useful for when you want to know exactly how sharp a cine camera can get. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaFotografie Posted March 16 Author Share #5 Posted March 16 (edited) vor 40 Minuten schrieb BernardC: Sigma's 135/1.8 is no slouch. It's widely considered to be a reference lens in cine mount, useful for when you want to know exactly how sharp a cine camera can get. I don't know Sigma's 135mm lens very well - when I wrote "modern 135mm" I thought of something like DG DN in Simga's lineup, not DG HSM, but maybe this is as good as a modern formula for mirrorless. Edited March 16 by MediaFotografie 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeleElmar135mm Posted March 16 Share #6 Posted March 16 vor 8 Minuten schrieb MediaFotografie: I don't know Sigma's 135mm lens very well - when I wrote "modern 135mm" I thought of something like DG DN in Simga's lineup, not DG HSM, but maybe this is as good as a modern formula for mirrorless. It's not only that the 135mm is not DG DN (they are lighter and even - look at the 85mm - they are slightly better wide open) is also the 105 1.4 - but Sigma has something in the pipeline as rumors told us: A lens wider than 1.4 - hopefully not a 50mm 1.2 (not enogh finger to count them) and not as big and heavy as the 35mm 1.2 (my wife don't like six-packs ). The fisheye and the new 14mm were not on my whishlist - but why not ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted March 16 Share #7 Posted March 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Penny 100mm macro is interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted March 17 Share #8 Posted March 17 Let me get this straight. The SL lens development began almost 10 years ago and we now have the following lenses from Leica (even if rebranded) that are Leica weather sealed and coated. Zooms APO 90-280 24-90 (almost apo) 16-35 14-28 24-70 100-400 with a 1.4x extender Primes 50 lux APO 50 cron 50 cron APO 35 cron 35 cron APO 28 APO 21 APO 75 APO 90 Yet, over the entire S development there were only these lenses made: 24mm, 30mm, 35mm, 45mm, 70mm, 120mm, 180mm, 35-70 zoom and 120mm T/S That is 9 lenses (ignoring a variant for the central shutter, same lens, different shutter) versus 15 lenses. Leica has continued to develop both retro lenses and new lenses for the M series including new variants of the prime ‘luxes with more blades, integrated sun hoods, a Noctilux 75 and 90 and an APO 35 that is about the same as the APO SL 35. This ignores the M11 series which actually brought us the SL3 sensor. Leica has done an incredible job of development and continues to make lenses that will stand much higher megapixel sensors. One of the design criteria for the APO SL primes (my understanding) was that the center resolution would provide 50% contrast at 200 LPM. For such a small company to invest in making lenses relevant for a long period is amazing in my view. Missing one or two lenses form an old roadmap is (IMO) an unreasonable complaint. 9 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 17 Share #9 Posted March 17 Well, actually any lens gets improved by a better sensor. A lens that “can’t stand” a higher resolution sensor cannot exist. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted March 17 Share #10 Posted March 17 A weather sealed set of high performing pancake (ish) lenses would be very welcome and twist my arm into grabbing an sl2s. The idea of being able to swap out an M lens in questionable weather with a small sealed option is appealing. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted March 17 Share #11 Posted March 17 I really wish that they would redo the Tri-Elmar... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickness Posted March 17 Share #12 Posted March 17 (edited) Disagree. 24 is hardly an essential or in demand focal length, and a pancake lens for the SL is the very definition of a niche request. We have an embarrassment of riches in SL native glass, every reasonable focal length needed to do a lifetime's work. Want niche stuff? Use M or R adapted glass, or glass by other L mount manufacturers. Saying "I'd like to have this because of my personal preferences" is one thing, suggesting that somehow the SL has been underserved by Leica in terms of superb, varied native glass or abandoned is simply not so. They've provided the tools the overwhelming majority of photographers need, and they are superb tools at that. This isn't the M system, producing all these niche products will be like pouring money into a hole, there's no real market for it, it would be bad business for Leica. They know customers who want niche/special glass are primarily M customers, and they'll pay handsomely for things like the Thambar, or color variants of lenses. This is not the SL crowd and such novelties would be a disaster. Who needs a roadmap to take pictures anyway? Edited March 17 by trickness 8 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted March 17 Share #13 Posted March 17 (edited) 25 minutes ago, jaapv said: Well, actually any lens gets improved by a better sensor. A lens that “can’t stand” a higher resolution sensor cannot exist. Yes, until the contrast of the line pairs is less than the the additional pixels can capture. The reverse of the nyquist limit? But in general, that has been the case. My point was more that the SL lenses are made for the future, and we are lucky we have so many! : - ) Edited March 17 by davidmknoble 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail Posted March 17 Share #14 Posted March 17 My needs are amply met by the SL lens lineup. A couple of summiluxes might tempt me: 75 or 90. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 17 Share #15 Posted March 17 2 hours ago, davidmknoble said: Yes, until the contrast of the line pairs is less than the the additional pixels can capture. The reverse of the nyquist limit? But in general, that has been the case. My point was more that the SL lenses are made for the future, and we are lucky we have so many! : - ) Not even then... You simply have reached the limit of the lens-sensor system. There is no weakest link situation here. And that applies to any lens-sensor situation. Agree with your point, though. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/10/the-8k-conundrum-when-bad-lenses-mount-good-sensors/ https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/10/more-ultra-high-resolution-mtf-experiments/ 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted March 17 Share #16 Posted March 17 41 minutes ago, jaapv said: Not even then... You simply have reached the limit of the lens-sensor system. There is no weakest link situation here. And that applies to any lens-sensor situation. Agree with your point, though. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/10/the-8k-conundrum-when-bad-lenses-mount-good-sensors/ https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/10/more-ultra-high-resolution-mtf-experiments/ So, if I understand you, when I reach the limit of the Lens-sensor system, it does not get worse, it just does not get better? Yes? I agree with that if it is where you’re headed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 17 Share #17 Posted March 17 Correct. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaFotografie Posted March 19 Author Share #18 Posted March 19 …and violà, another new 50mm lens for L mount; nobody can count them… https://photorumors.com/2024/03/18/sigma-to-announde-a-new-50mm-f-1-2-dg-dn-art-lens-for-sony-e-and-leica-l-mount/ 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 19 Share #19 Posted March 19 I'd take an APO Summarit 180mm f2. 5 I L mount..... A 85mm 1.4 would be nice. Gordon 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickness Posted March 19 Share #20 Posted March 19 17 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said: I'd take an APO Summarit 180mm f2. 5 I L mount..... A 85mm 1.4 would be nice. Gordon Thing is, everyone complains about the weight/size of the 50 SL Lux, dealers can’t sell them, resale is terrible. Great lens, but from a sales standpoint, a failure. Theres plenty of moaning here about the SL APO Crons being too heavy! A 75 1.4 SL Lux would likely be even bigger/heavier. Can’t see them ever doing this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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