The M10 or a new camera line? [Merged]

[sanyasi]

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Where are they getting the money to develop this beast? They can't make M9s fast enough to satisfy demand.

 

Not that I put any credence in the first post, but if they can't keep up with the demand for the M9, that might explain where they are going to get the money.

[jaapv]

I don't think they would develop/build it themselves. It seems a strange story, with that Leicaflex prototype added, but otoh, there has to come a solution for the R problem.

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[rosuna]

That Leicaflex prototype looks like the Leica X1... in some sense...

[adan]

Assuming, for the moment, the rumor is true (I can't think of technical reasons that rule out the possibility):

 

1) I doubt it will be an "M" anything - Leica will reserve the "M" designation only for classic coupled-rangefinder/viewfinder cameras. There may be an M10 at some point - this isn't it.

 

More likely it will be an extension of the "X" line - or possibly a revival of the "Digilux" name. That probably depends on the marketing dynamics and how Leica sees it fitting into the current and past lines. Do they see it more as an X with interchangeable lenses - or a succesor to the Digilux 3, which takes R lenses via adapter but was primarily based around its own micro-4/3rds lenses? I could see it being named either "Digilux 4" - or "XM"-"X3"-"XR"-"XD"-"X-Whatever".

 

2) It may well take both M and R lenses via adapters and also have its own line of lenses in a new mount.

 

3) If it is really full-frame, there may be limitations on which M lenses can be used (e.g. perhaps nothing wider than 28mm) - I'd expect one sensor would not work well with both extra-wide M lenses and long R lenses - the old issue of microlenses and acceptable angles of light and so on.

 

4) I note the rumor states AF via a moving sensor (i.e. similar to the Contax AX SLR, which moved the film plane inside the camera to allow (slowish) AF with their manual-focus lenses). Somehow I suspect the new, dedicated lenses will have their own AF, and the moving sensor will lock into place for those lenses, and only unlock for internal AF when it senses an adapter is mounted, to allow AF (if desired) with legacy MF lenses.

 

5) Leica has said in several interviews that they were experimenting with smaller and/or less expensive bodies that could take M or R lenses. So this possibility doesn't surprise me, and actually I consider it a smart and cost-effective way to create an "R solution," a less expensive M-mount alternative or backup body, and a more advanced low-end AF interchangeable-lens camera all in one piece of design - as well as make the live-view crowd happy without messing up the classic M cameras.

 

Again - all of the above is speculation. I'd rate this as very probable at some point in the future, and 50/50 for Photokina - at least as of today.

 

Between the wayward value of the Euro, and the question of VAT, the price estimate is still very rough in dollar terms. But a full-frame camera that could replace my 5D for R lenses and simultaneously be a backup to my M9 with at least some M lenses would be worthwhile at just under $4,000 (pre-tax) - IF the sensor (almost certainly CMOS) measures up to the M9's CCD in noise and color.

Edited May 5, 2010 by adan

[lct]

...Leica has said in several interviews that they were experimenting with smaller and/or less expensive bodies that could take M or R lenses. So this possibility doesn't surprise me, and actually I consider it a smart and cost-effective way to create an "R solution," a less expensive M-mount alternative or backup body, and a more advanced low-end AF interchangeable-lens camera all in one piece of design - as well as make the live-view crowd happy without messing up the classic M cameras....

+1

[peterv]

Andy, a very clear and well thought out post (as ever)

You've said it all.

+1 from here too.

[ho_co]

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Agreed. If it were an M, there would be no need for a new line of lenses, let alone "3(!) pancakes."

 

But only in black? My sources say mauve and peach and strawberry are the 'in' colors for the 2010-2011 season.

 

 

Sounds exactly like the digital CL so many have been requesting:

Limited range of lenses designed for its specific capabilities.

Limited usability with M lenses.

But full usability with R lenses, even if only with stop-down metering.

And price-point. At half the price of the M, another "Cheap Leica."

 

 

Only five months to photokina...

Edited May 6, 2010 by ho_co

[rosuna]

- as well as make the live-view crowd happy without messing up the classic M cameras.

 

I want a classic digital M camera with live view, which is important and necessary for expanding the versatility of the system, accurate focusing, etc. That has nothing to do with a new system with AF, etc.

[jankap]

M-lenses lack auto-diafragm. The rangefinder provision would be of no use. The full size sensor of the M9 is expensive and would concur to the M-line.

A solution for the R-line as a kind of an X-model (sensor size) would make sense in my opinion. To safe the investments in R-lenses.

 

Of course with an own lense line too, designed for the sensor.

People want small cameras, for the pocket, for the bag. So a standard lens in pancake, pfannkuchen, pizza, crepe or poffertjes design could be welcomed (without a motorized extension mechanism).

 

Interesting could be the lens correction software. Either the camera recognising the lens or with parameters inside a lens chip to be delivered to the camera software.

Jan

[lct]

...full usability with R lenses, even if only with stop-down metering...

With auto brightening of the EVF hopefully.

[lct]

I want a classic digital M camera with live view...

Will be for M10 or M11 i guess.

[bill]

Sorry, but I cannot follow your logic.

 

Try.

 

You want factual discussion. Stick to reality then. Stop making unfounded assertions "...apart from the negligible cost (per camera) of programming..." being a prime example.

 

You are falling into the trap that others seem unable to avoid; assuming that if you want something it is a) a common requirement and cheap/easy to implement.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[rolu]

see above - same thing here.

 

I don't have the time for this.

 

It's not good for the forum, what is happening here.

[redbaron]

Anyone that starts a post with "I want" goes straight to my ignore list from now on.

[Overgaard]

Anyone that starts a post with "I want" goes straight to my ignore list from now on.

 

And "I've heard from a trusted Leica source..." and "Why can't Leica make..." and enything that talks about ISO higher than 2500 ISO

[jaapv]

M-lenses lack auto-diafragm. The rangefinder provision would be of no use. The full size sensor of the M9 is expensive and would concur to the M-line.

A solution for the R-line as a kind of an X-model (sensor size) would make sense in my opinion. To safe the investments in R-lenses.

 

Of course with an own lense line too, designed for the sensor.

People want small cameras, for the pocket, for the bag. So a standard lens in pancake, pfannkuchen, pizza, crepe or poffertjes design could be welcomed (without a motorized extension mechanism).

 

Interesting could be the lens correction software. Either the camera recognising the lens or with parameters inside a lens chip to be delivered to the camera software.

Jan

Leica has already spoken: The R solution will be full-frame.

[jsrockit]

Evil will come from Leica Leica EVIL Camera for Photokina? - Echenique dot com but not as a M-line camera (more a X). In body AF may allow it to use also R and may be M lenses too in AF mode.

 

This would be nice if true, but they are already struggling to deliver 3 brand new cameras.

[andybarton]

Absolutely. It seems to me that they would be better spending their money on delivering what the have in their catalogue now, rather than trying to make more and more different cameras.

 

They don't HAVE to bring out a new camera at Photokina.

[lct]

Could be a new PanaLeica.

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[Vip]

Regardless the name that Leica will choose, if the rumors are precise, it will be a successful camera.

Can satisfy many wishes: compact, autofocus, LEICA LENS, lower price,automatic, probably can fit R and M lens. This item can be a conquer tool for take more people to Leica.