Monochrom DNG for SL3. Let's make it happen.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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So I'm shooting my newish SL3 in DNG only. Maybe I missed it on the SL2 but you can set the styles to monochrom when shooting DNG only. It plays back on the camera as a mono image. Even better it appears in the Fotos app as a monochrom image. Unfortunately these instructions aren't sent to Lightroom and you get a colour file.

So, Leica. Here's what I want. A monochrom DNG file from the SL3 that's respected by Lightroom. How 'bout it?

Gordon

[frame-it]

10 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

So I'm shooting my newish SL3 in DNG only. Maybe I missed it on the SL2 but you can set the styles to monochrom when shooting DNG only. It plays back on the camera as a mono image. Even better it appears in the Fotos app as a monochrom image. Unfortunately these instructions aren't sent to Lightroom and you get a colour file.

So, Leica. Here's what I want. A monochrom DNG file from the SL3 that's respected by Lightroom. How 'bout it?

Gordon

like the fuji's, in lightroom a mono [acros etc] profile is added automatically?

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[elmars]

The camera only needs to write development parameters that Lightroom understands into the DNG. It is the same as what we do when we set Lightroom to write the metadata to the DNG.

I spoke to Leica people about this about 2 years ago. They were interested. 

[Simone_DF]

The Pixii goes beyond that and produces a monochrome DNG through in camera processing

https://pixii.fr/monochrome

[SrMi]

SL3's DNGs already have embedded a Film Mode (Standard, Monochrome, ...) tag. Adobe is responsible for recognizing and applying that tag when reading the raw files.

In the list of supported cameras, Adobe lists SL cameras with "Camera Matching Profiles Available = No."

Edited March 28 by SrMi

[Dr. G]

What would be the advantage to having a monochrome DNG from the SL3?  Wouldn’t you lose the ability to adjust the color channels?  I realize you don’t have that ability with the Monochrom cameras, but you’re gaining dynamic range, shading gradation and effective resolution with those sensors.  

[jaapv]

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You don’t lose your colour channels with a Monochrom camera, just convert Greyscale to RGB very useful to create toning and to use Neural Filters like Colorize. 
The advantage of a monochrome sensor is not the fact that it produces an output without colour information but that it does so by not having a Bayer Filer -so no filter aberrations- and no interpolation thus no 30 % resolution loss One pixel on the sensor is one pixel in the print. A monochrome DNG from a color sensor would lose those advantages and would be exactly the same as a decolorized file in Photoshop. 

[Dr. G]

14 minutes ago, jaapv said:

You don’t lose your colour channels with a Monochrom camera, just convert Greyscale to RGB very useful to create toning and to use Neural Filters like Colorize. 
The advantage of a monochrome sensor is not the fact that it produces an output without colour information but that it does so by not having a Bayer Filer -so no filter aberrations- and no interpolation thus no 30 % resolution loss One pixel on the sensor is one pixel in the print. A monochrome DNG from a color sensor would lose those advantages and would be exactly the same as a decolorized file in Photoshop. 

Right, that’s kind of what I was getting at.  

[jaapv]

I rarely use LR but can’t you just use the B&W option in Basic? You won’t lose your DNG as LR is non-destructive and will only convert your DNG during Export whilst applying your edits of course. 

[BernardC]

29 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The advantage of a monochrome sensor is not the fact that it produces an output without colour information but that it does so by not having a Bayer Filer -so no filter aberrations- and no interpolation thus no 30 % resolution loss One pixel on the sensor is one pixel in the print. A monochrome DNG from a color sensor would lose those advantages and would be exactly the same as a decolorized file in Photoshop. 

The Pixii explanation for their process is that it is calibrated to the actual colour filters on their sensor, therefore the interpolation stage can be bypassed (or at least minimized). I haven't tried it, but reviews tend to agree that it's better than a Photoshop conversion, but not as good as a true monochrome sensor. The downside is that every pixel is modified in the raw file, so you can't go back to the colour version.

I set my SL to monochrome-JPEG even when I am shooting for colour, because I prefer to compose in black and white. Unfortunately, that trick doesn't work for video. People older than myself may remember that professional video cameras used greyscale viewfinders for decades. That's partly because greyscale monitors were sharper, but it also improved the operator's ability to judge exposure and composition.

[jaapv]

Skipping interpolation is a smart move as it mitigates the resolution loss problem. However the aberrations introduced by the microfilters of the Bayer array will remain.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

I rarely use LR but can’t you just use the B&W option in Basic? You won’t lose your DNG as LR is non-destructive and will only convert your DNG during Export whilst applying your edits of course. 

Yes.

The advantage is that I wouldn't have to remember which shots I've just set to b&w in camera (or shoot DNG+jpeg). On my last trip with the SL3 I bounced back and forth quite a lot and enjoyed it. Despite the advantages on the true mono sensor the SL3's sensor can still make excellent b&w files in the absence of a SL3M, and having to then identify and add an extra step to those files was an annoying bump in my workflow.

One of the new *Leicons* allows fast switching of the looks making moving between colour and b&w relatively seemless. That also carries through to image review and even Fotos. It'd be nice to have it flow through to LR Classic as well. I mostly make my b&w decisions in camera and it'd be a nice workflow bump to have LR read that information. All it would take is for Leica and Adobe to agree on it, basically. I think it would enhance the user experience for a lot of SL shooters.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

5 hours ago, Dr. G said:

What would be the advantage to having a monochrome DNG from the SL3?  Wouldn’t you lose the ability to adjust the color channels?  I realize you don’t have that ability with the Monochrom cameras, but you’re gaining dynamic range, shading gradation and effective resolution with those sensors.  

Should have been clearer. I just want the profile selected shown as the starting point. Not necessarily removing the colour information as the advantages of that are small. LR can do this for other brands but doesn't for Leica, the brand that *leads* digital b&w workflow.

Gordon

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Should have been clearer. I just want the profile selected shown as the starting point. Not necessarily removing the colour information as the advantages of that are small. LR can do this for other brands but doesn't for Leica, the brand that *leads* digital b&w workflow.

Gordon

does Capture apply it if you set monochrome in the SL3?

Edited March 29 by frame-it

[FlashGordonPhotography]

19 minutes ago, frame-it said:

does Capture apply it if you set monochrome in the SL3?

No idea. I use LR exclusevly now.

Fotos does so the information is ready to be read.

Gordon

[Photoworks]

nice to have, but there is a reason why you find "styles" and Leica Looks in "JPG Settings"

 

NO, C1P applies the Camera profiles from C1P and does not read the style or LOOKS

[frame-it]

cool way to extract the icc camera profile from the raw file, think ill use this and save all the icc's and dump them into LR

exiftool -icc_profile -b -w icc  [raw file or jpg]