Does the SL3 display Shutter Shock with the Mechanical Shutter?

[Luke_Miller]

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Correcting the shutter shock I experience with my SL and SL2 would be the improvement that would get me to buy an SL3.  Any SL3 user checked for it?

[algrove]

Have not checked it, but will as I just about have camera setup the way I want it. BTW assume you mean handheld?

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[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Luke_Miller said:

Correcting the shutter shock I experience with my SL and SL2 would be the improvement that would get me to buy an SL3.  Any SL3 user checked for it?

What kind of tests/setups exhibited shutter shock with SL and SL2?

 

[jigesh]

Mechanical shutter 1/80s to 1/160s as per this post: [I remember reading effects till 1/250s but that's probably user-dependent] 

 

[Luke_Miller]

5 hours ago, algrove said:

Have not checked it, but will as I just about have camera setup the way I want it. BTW assume you mean handheld?

Yes, handheld. Preferably with focal lengths 90mm and higher.

[algrove]

27 minutes ago, Luke_Miller said:

Yes, handheld. Preferably with focal lengths 90mm and higher.

With longer lenses I would probably use 1/1000 even with IBIS so that might negate any shutter shock.

[jaapv]

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Some shutters produce shutter shock in a frequency range that cannot be negated by either IBIS/OIS or high shutter speeds. That is why we use electronic shutter for long lenses -that are the most affected- and pray for a global shutter.

[Geoff C. Bassett]

23 minutes ago, algrove said:

With longer lenses I would probably use 1/1000 even with IBIS so that might negate any shutter shock.

Obviously. This problem arises when you have to use the lenses in very low light, and given the bad RS on the SL3 knowing whether this is still an issue or not is important.

[algrove]

1 hour ago, Geoff C. Bassett said:

Obviously. This problem arises when you have to use the lenses in very low light, and given the bad RS on the SL3 knowing whether this is still an issue or not is important.

Bad RS on the SL3? You mean rolling shutter? In low light I do not use ES. The OP asked about mechanical shutter issues.

Edited March 18 by algrove

[SrMi]

We need more practical tests that show the presence or absence of shutter shock. Best is to use your typical setup (lens and exposure) in a your typical scene. Also, we may want to specify in the images section whether electronic or mechanical shutter was used.

For a given camera, shutter sped and focal length, shutter shock visibility should be deterministic.
 

[Luke_Miller]

Some background - I am primarily an indoor event shooter using the 24-90 and 90-280 lenses.  Using the 90-280 @280mm and mechanical shutter as a worst case I need at least 1/250 sec. to fully eliminate the effect of shutter vibration on image quality.  Indoors with those f2.8-f4.0 aperture zooms I have to use slower than 1/250 to keep ISO values reasonable.  The electronic shutter solves the vibration issue but adds the potential for banding in artificial light and rolling shutter artifacts.  I find 1/125 sec generally works to prevent banding in the lighting of my usual venues and my subjects don't often move fast enough to show the effects of rolling shutter.  But with the electronic shutter, any setting other than 1/60 or 1/125 will produce imaging ruining banding in most of the artificial light I experience.  So I have to be careful.  I am happy with the results my SL and SL2 produce but would love to see this issue resolved.

[algrove]

Understand your situation Luke, but have not had your issues with either M11 or SL2S so far, but I am seldom if ever an indoor shooter.

Perhaps head to the Leica Store WDC and ask to use the SL3 to perform a test in the store. It is probably best to call ahead to secure the time frame you envision it will take. The Manager in that Store is Werner and he generally does not work on Mondays or Tuesdays based on my experience.

Edited March 18 by algrove

[Photoworks]

How do you know it is shutter shock?

 

I just looked at some images of the Sl3 and 90-250 outgoods, and within 100 there are 4 that have motion in it. it think it more shooting too quickly before the IS is ready in my opinion.

Edited March 18 by Photoworks

[Geoff C. Bassett]

10 hours ago, Photoworks said:

How do you know it is shutter shock?

 

I just looked at some images of the Sl3 and 90-250 outgoods, and within 100 there are 4 that have motion in it. it think it more shooting too quickly before the IS is ready in my opinion.

This is a known problem with the SL2 that I run into myself when shooting events in low light. Please stop blaming the users.

[Photoworks]

15 minutes ago, Geoff C. Bassett said:

This is a known problem with the SL2 that I run into myself when shooting events in low light. Please stop blaming the users.

I was looking at my photos.
I didn't blame anybody!?!

relax buddy

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, SrMi said:

We need more practical tests that show the presence or absence of shutter shock.

The "old school" test is to attach a laser pointer on a camera and take pictures of the projected dot on a wall. Go through all available shutter speeds and see which ones cause problems. Typically, you'll find a small range of speeds that cause issues, with anything slower or faster being fine.

[anickpick]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Photoworks:

I was looking at my photos.
I didn't blame anybody!?!

relax buddy

 

I tried 1/100th of a sec with SL 2, 50 Apo SL, mechanical shutter with IBIS on and off. 10 shots each.

Those with mechanical shutter and IBIS ON were all easily sharp enough for my needs - however, none of those shots were 100% sharp on a pixel level.

Out of those with mechanical shutter and IBIS OFF, two were worse and three were about equal, but five were perfectly sharp on a pixel level.

 

I tried 1/30th of a sec and guess what: Those with mechanical shutter and IBIS ON were all perfectly sharp on a pixel level.

 

My conclusion: SL 2 with IBIS ON and mechanical shutter is not ideal at certain, unfortunately rather often used,  shutter speeds. 

It would be interesting to know how the SL 3 works in this respect...

 

Edited March 18 by anickpick

[Luke_Miller]

IBIS does not seem to be a factor since I get the same results with my SL Typ 601 which lacks IBIS.  Longer focal lengths show it more.  The 90-280 at the long end really shows it.

[Luke_Miller]

I haven't seen an answer to this question.  Now that more SL3 cameras are in user hands I thought I would bump this thread back to the top.

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[SrMi]

Shooting SL3 with 90-280 @ 280mm f/4.0, 1/125 sec, I noticed that the images with the electronic shutter are sharper (3 shots with the mechanical and 3 shots with the electronic shutter, handheld). I assume there is an IQ-degrading shutter shock with SL3 as well. Below are partial screenshots from 100% view in LrC.

I would expect shutter shock to look differently, more like https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/shutter-shock-and-the-nikon-z7/. Something like Topaz Sharpen AI can help with the blurriness below.

I do not see any sharpness difference when shooting at 1/1600 sec.

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Edited April 27 by SrMi