SL2-S vs Leica Q3?

[nemendes]

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2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It is not distortion but skewed perspective. Which means that you will need more or less centric compositions which is usual for portraits. For that reason Leica provides frame lines. 

I see, thank you for explanation. Is there any examples or site that taken portrait with leica q3 at 50mm?

For Panasonic system, i agree with you btw. After using leica for a long time, other cameras have complicated menu and button system for me as well. 

[Chris W]

18 minutes ago, nemendes said:

 

I heard about that people asks for Q with a 50mm lens too, and it would be great in my opinion. If cropping would be giving same results, why other people wants that 50mm right? 

I loved my Q, but didn't want to be (effectively) shooting at 28mm all the time, it's just not a viewpoint I enjoy.

I understand the crop theory, but I can't justify owning a very expensive camera where I'm never going to use the native 28mm the vast majority of the time. Better to use that money on a camera that shoots 35 to 50mm.

If there had been a Q with 35 or 50mm lens I would have been extremely tempted.

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[Simone_DF]

2 minutes ago, Chris W said:

There is the CL, which is still quite easy to find. I'm using a Sigma FP and would add an FP-L if I could justify the expense. It is small, light, produces fantastic images with L mount alliance lenses (Sigma, Leica, Panasonic etc).

The CL is a dead camera line with no path forward. Once the camera dies, you can use its lenses as doorstoppers.

Moreover, its autofocus is primitive rubbish.

Wish Leica released a CL2 with modern tech, but they decided otherwise.

[nemendes]

3 minutes ago, Chris W said:

There is the CL, which is still quite easy to find. I'm using a Sigma FP and would add an FP-L if I could justify the expense. It is small, light, produces fantastic images with L mount alliance lenses (Sigma, Leica, Panasonic etc).

My friend has Sigma FP, I just tried it for a 5min and evf system was a little weird for me at first. But my friend is agree with you totally about images. Maybe i should give an another change.

[Chris W]

2 minutes ago, nemendes said:

After using leica for a long time, other cameras have complicated menu and button system for me as well. 

I would never buy a Panasonic for this exact reason.

The X1D2 has a very simple user interface and menu system. I really like the M and Q layout and menu too.

[Chris W]

1 minute ago, Simone_DF said:

The CL is a dead camera line with no path forward. Once the camera dies, you can use its lenses as doorstoppers.

Moreover, its autofocus is primitive rubbish.

 

Wrong. It is native L mount, which is fully alive and ever expanding. I shot a live band over several shows in 2022 and had no issue with the autofocus.

There are so many CL's in circulation it will likely be a viable system for years to come. people are still using M9's and M240's.

 

[jaapv]

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3 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

The CL is a dead camera line with no path forward. Once the camera dies, you can use its lenses as doorstoppers.

Moreover, its autofocus is primitive rubbish.

Wish Leica released a CL2 with modern tech, but they decided otherwise.

The CL lenses are (cropped 🙃) L lenses

[Chris W]

3 minutes ago, nemendes said:

My friend has Sigma FP, I just tried it for a 5min and evf system was a little weird for me at first. 

The FP-L is probably the one for photography.

Like many other Sigma cameras it has some annoying features, but I personally love it and the images it produces are superb.

It is small, even with the add on EVF.

[Simone_DF]

yeah, CL lenses are APS-C L lenses, but then we are back to cropping when using them on a full frame L camera.

I personally find the CL autofocus performance no less than atrocious. Seems like something out of '80s tech.

[Chris W]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The CL lenses are (cropped 🙃) L lenses

Yep, there are dedicated CL lenses, but the camera works well with all the full frame L mount lenses, especially the small and light Sigma ones.

[Chris W]

Just now, Simone_DF said:

yeah, CL lenses are APS-C L lenses, but then we are back to cropping when using them on a full frame L camera.

 

No because you aren't cropping the final file (losing pixels), like you are with the Q system. You are using a 23mm lens to get close to a 35mm equivalent, a 35 or 40mm lens to get close to 50mm equivalent. What you see in the viewfinder is what you get in the final image.

 

[Simone_DF]

14 minutes ago, Chris W said:

No because you aren't cropping the final file (losing pixels), like you are with the Q system. You are using a 23mm lens to get close to a 35mm equivalent, a 35 or 40mm lens to get close to 50mm equivalent. What you see in the viewfinder is what you get in the final image.

 

When using an APS-C lens on a full frame camera, you lose pixels because the lens won't cover the full frame image circle. It's like cropping. What you see in the viewfinder is what you get in the final image, but what you see in the viewfinder is also a cropped image - the camera turns to APS-C mode. 

[jaapv]

The really interesting thing that has not been pointed out yet as far as I know is that the Q is the only camera that functions exactly like your eye and brain do. 
Your eye is a 22 mm lens with exactly the same perspective as a camera 22 mm lens. Your brain corrects the optical input like linear distortion just like the Q does and crops the area of interest in the middle down to 45 mm which is what you see normally. If the subject is smaller your brain will crop even further.

You can see the “distortion” of your eye’s edges- exactly like your wideangle lens-, it is just the edge perspective,  by looking fixed straight ahead and concentrating on your peripheral vision. 

[Chris W]

The file size is the same, whatever lens you use.

The smaller APSC sensor might deliver a smaller file size than a full frame sensor, sure.

The main issue for me with the Q3 is using it permanently outside it's native 28mm set up. Using the CL with a 35mm Sigma lens at least I could see a 50mm style image and that's what arrived sat my photo software.

[Qwertynm]

Many people use micro 4/3 or ApS-C cameras and they haven’t died from using smaller formats. I don’t see the issue in using crop modes in the Q or smaller sensor cameras. 

If you want small and relatively light I‘d check out Fuji X mount. They have a very good 18 1.4 (28mm aeq.) and a 33 1.4 (50mm aeq.) or the older and small 35 1.4. The X-Pro series has even the rangefinder style copied of Leica. 

if you’re interested in the Leica Q3 there is a whole subforum for the Q series with a recent thread from someone requesting portraits in 50mm cropmode.  Might want to check it out if you want to stay with a Leica. 

[Chris W]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The really interesting thing that has not been pointed out yet as far as I know is that the Q is the only camera that functions exactly like your eye and brain do. 
 

Your brain picks out the subject you want to focus on and everything else ends up being peripheral vision.

The problem I had with the Q was that composing an image where everything in a 28 mm wide view was contributing, or at least not distracting, was difficult.

I think quite a few top professionals say shooting at 28mm or wider is very hard due to this reason.

[Simone_DF]

4 minutes ago, Qwertynm said:

Many people use micro 4/3 or ApS-C cameras and they haven’t died from using smaller formats. I don’t see the issue in using crop modes in the Q or smaller sensor cameras. 

 

Then buy a m4/3 or APS-C camera, not a 6500€ full frame, bigger, bulkier camera.

Buying a Q3 to crop all the time is like buying a Ferrari, but you use it only to go buy milk at the shop next door.

[jaapv]

19 minutes ago, Chris W said:

The file size is the same, whatever lens you use.

The smaller APSC sensor might deliver a smaller file size than a full frame sensor, sure.

The main issue for me with the Q3 is using it permanently outside its native 28mm set up. Using the CL with a 35mm Sigma lens at least I could see a 50mm style image and that's what arrived sat my photo software.

See my post above. The CL delivers 24 MP files, the Q whatever you crop it to. So does a ff L camera with a TL lens.  The focal length or rather angle of view determines only the framing and the subject distance and angle to the optical axis determines the perspective. 

[Qwertynm]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Simone_DF:

Buying a Q3 to crop all the time is like buying a Ferrari, but you use it only to go buy milk at the shop next door.

What an awful comparison. My Car will go 250km/h but that doesn’t mean I have to go full throttle all the time. Besides, most cities have a 50km/h or 30km/h speed limit where I live. I doubt your Ferrari will go faster in a congested city. 

you don’t seem to get the Q concept. And that’s fine. I have other cameras too because sometimes I enjoy shooting with a 50mm 1.2 or a 135 1.8 or a 70-200. The Q can’t do that but it can do 28-50 with a reasonable resolution to spare. There’s nothing wrong with cropping as much as there is nothing wrong with using the whole sensor with the adequate focal length. You do you. No need to talk down how other people are using their tools to get results. 

Edited January 16 by Qwertynm

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Simone_DF]

Feel free to use whatever.

If your main lens is 50mm, I still think it's mind boggling to buy a 6500€ full frame camera to end up with with most of the photos shot the size of a smartphone sensor.