Leica M11-P: New Flagship With Content Authentication

[thrid]

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7 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Is it just me or is there a "ho-hum" about this release of  the M11-P? Much ado about pretty much nothing?

I did not expect to see any big changes until the M12 arrives, which I suspect will dump the mechanical shutter and replace it with a jello free global electronic shutter. There may  be a simple 'dumb' shutter that caps the sensor when changing lenses etc.

In addition to the traditional optical rangefinder model, I suspect that there is a good chance that we may also see a EVF version being offered along side. If Leica goes big you may even see a hybrid optical / EVF finder like on the Fuji X-Pro.

Personally I have no interest in an EVF model, since the view is too sluggish for my kind of shooting. I've tried everything from a Z9 to the SL and Q series and they all have too much lag. For me it's optical all the way, which is why I plan on buying a DSLR, while you can still get them.

Edited October 27, 2023 by thrid

[steveBK]

2 hours ago, Stef63 said:

Additionally, most of the volume of an AirTag is taken up by its casing and battery. This wouldn't be necessary, as only the electronics need to be integrated into the M.

For the adventurous, I bet you could tear it apart and put the board & battery next to each other, increasing the footprint but reducing the thickness

https://www.ifixit.com/News/50145/airtag-teardown-part-one-yeah-this-tracks

You could then more easily fit into a camera case / inside the fabric linings / etc 

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[setuporg]

I must say that of dozens of ideas for improvement, CAI was never even mentioned here since M11 had launched.  And we wish Leica listens to the users here...

[Kwesi]

59 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

This story illustrates that no amount of authentication associated with the captured image file and processing chain will in itself ensure journalistic integrity.

 

True, but the chip is not designed to do that. Its designed to prove the authenticity/integrity of the image file  (not the photographer) at time of capture.

 

[Kwesi]

12 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I must say that of dozens of ideas for improvement, CAI was never even mentioned here since M11 had launched.  And we wish Leica listens to the users here...

I have to say kudos to Leica for adding a feature that's creating some buzz! Even if for the vast majority of us M users its pretty damn low on the M11-P wishlist

[jaapv]

Still, I can imagine situations where being able to authenticate an image back to its origin can be of great value, if only legally. I mean, being able to prove beyond doubt that the cat that you photographed was the neighbour's sitting on your fence can earn you a large amount of money in litigation.

[Eoin]

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My photography has been a life long hobby, all personal, non commercial. 

So from that perspective, the M11-P is a disappointment in terms of "useful upgrades". I had been reluctant to invest in a higher resolution M11 to complement my M10, because of all the issues and dread of long delays in Leica CS should anything go wrong. 

It'll be interesting to see if the M11-P is prone to freezing, I'm still keen on getting a higher res M and don't fancy another 5 year wait. I still enjoy the M10, it has been flawless and a joy to use.

 

[setuporg]

32 minutes ago, Eoin said:

It'll be interesting to see if the M11-P is prone to freezing, I'm still keen on getting a higher res M and don't fancy another 5 year wait. I still enjoy the M10, it has been flawless and a joy to use.

M10-R was my go-to M since its release and is enough for most things.  And I found myself bringing my Edition 60 more and more along.  But I'm finally curious about the M11 with the M11-P -- the hope here is that it's thoroughly tested given what's transpired.

[Edax]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Still, I can imagine situations where being able to authenticate an image back to its origin can be of great value, if only legally. I mean, being able to prove beyond doubt that the cat that you photographed was the neighbour's sitting on your fence can earn you a large amount of money in litigation.

Especially when the cat is as big as the one on your avatar 😀

[marchyman]

12 hours ago, AndreasG said:

Who can explain me why the camera has different order Nos. country by country resp. region by region? It can't be the AC charger or its plug.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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Guess: WiFi frequencies.   The range of supported channels varies by region. At 2.4 GHz most of the world supports channels 1-13.   In the US Channel 12 and 13 are avoided.  In Japan channel 14 is allowed for some use.

[mujk]

5 minutes ago, marchyman said:

Guess: WiFi frequencies.   The range of supported channels varies by region. At 2.4 GHz most of the world supports channels 1-13.   In the US Channel 12 and 13 are avoided.  In Japan channel 14 is allowed for some use.

Another alternative could be export or import restrictions on the cryptographic algorithms and/or crypto key lengths or the crypto chip itself used in implementing CAI. Just guessing.

[jdlaing]

5 hours ago, Antonio Russell said:

"It can be difficult for photographers to prove authorship of their own photographs"

Source: https://leica-camera.com/en-int/news/partnership-greater-trust-digital-photography-leica-and-content-authenticity-initiative

I think you’re interpreting it wrong. It’s meant to prove the photo is original as taken and nothing has been added or removed from a photo.

[Antonio Russell]

21 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

I think you’re interpreting it wrong. It’s meant to prove the photo is original as taken and nothing has been added or removed from a photo.

Yea right. Tell that to Leica mate. The only authorship proven is that of the camera, not the person having taken it. 

[jdlaing]

18 minutes ago, Antonio Russell said:

Yea right. Tell that to Leica mate. The only authorship proven is that of the camera, not the person having taken it. 

That’s correct. As it is stated.

[thrid]

54 minutes ago, Antonio Russell said:

Yea right. Tell that to Leica mate. The only authorship proven is that of the camera, not the person having taken it. 

It is not about tracking the shooting location or tagging a person as the photographer.

It's about creating a chain of verification to ensure that the original DNG has not been modified.

That's it.

Think of it as a tamper seal.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by thrid

[Jan1985]

The good news: You can still make photo with it! Chapeau

[rramesh]

4 hours ago, Antonio Russell said:

Yea right. Tell that to Leica mate. The only authorship proven is that of the camera, not the person having taken it. 

"I tell you that's my camera that took this photo! It was stolen 6 months ago!"

 

[setuporg]

5 hours ago, mujk said:

Another alternative could be export or import restrictions on the cryptographic algorithms and/or crypto key lengths or the crypto chip itself used in implementing CAI. Just guessing.

Cryptography export regulations had failed and were generally abandoned, which is an argument that the Linux Foundation is now making to the EU to drop its misguided attempts to regulate AI in a similar fashion.  Hope it's not that.

[Kwesi]

28 minutes ago, rramesh said:

"I tell you that's my camera that took this photo! It was stolen 6 months ago!"

 

“… and I’ve never seen it make such beautiful photos, your honor!”

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Mr.Q]

This doesn't move the needle at all, still perfectly happy with my ultra-reliable M10-P.