The M11 Raw files access thread

[Guest]

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... the story continues. After praising the Capture One color profile, I discovered a rendering issue in Capture One that significantly compromises image details. Here is a magnified illustration. This may be related to the new sensor:

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Note the gaps in the outline of the "TEFRA" sign and the missing pixels in the fence.

**UPDATE** - when enabling "Chromatic Aberration" (Under "Lens Correction") the pixel gaps disappear. However, they are replaced with dark cyan/magenta pixels. Educated guess is over-zealous de-mosaicing algorithm applied by default which then is mitigated by CA-related interpolation (seems to go back to the full raw data, interesting interaction within their raw pipeline). Still not great as you get more CA on the formerly missing pixels (compared to Lightroom), but probably a safe default to always leave this setting turned on:

For comparison, Lightroom - very clean, no such artifacts (lack of other aberrations might be due to available lens profile):

Similar story with Silkypix 11 Pro as with Capture One (demoniac artifacts), but at least an alternative algorithm ("standard" instead of default "clear view") is available and solves the problem:

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Guest
content added

[tashley]

16 hours ago, mzbe said:

Thanks Tim, while some of us are still waiting for our M11s this is a great way to satisfy some of our curiosity. Kudos!

Below is the current state of Lightroom and Capture One profiles applied to your DNG above (no changes to sliders or settings). For Capture One, I am very impressed by their new Pro Standard profiles (not available for all bodies) and would give C1 now strong consideration for "no tweak" conversions.

Capture One 22 (15.1.2), Pro Standard:

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Lightroom Classic 11.2,  Leica embedded profile

Lightroom Classic 11.2, Adobe Standard

Lightroom Classic 11.2, Adobe Color

Lightroom Classic 11.2, Cobalt Standard (3rd party)

Thanks for that - useful and interesting, I use C1 for files from my IQ4 but I long ago committed to LR for my workflow with all other files. I once, during a C1 upgrade, when they changed the way they do catalogs, lost a whole load of stuff. Luckily I had backup but it took a long time to sort and at that time I decided that actually the stability and usability of the cataloguing functions was of enormous importance to me, so I stopped using C1 for anything but Phase files. It may or may not sometimes give a better result 'out of the can' but I generally try to expose to the right so out of the can renditions aren't so often right for me anyway! 

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[idusidusi]

12 minutes ago, tashley said:

Thanks for that - useful and interesting, I use C1 for files from my IQ4 but I long ago committed to LR for my workflow with all other files. I once, during a C1 upgrade, when they changed the way they do catalogs, lost a whole load of stuff. Luckily I had backup but it took a long time to sort and at that time I decided that actually the stability and usability of the cataloguing functions was of enormous importance to me, so I stopped using C1 for anything but Phase files. It may or may not sometimes give a better result 'out of the can' but I generally try to expose to the right so out of the can renditions aren't so often right for me anyway! 

I stick with Sessions in C1 and I am impressed with it. However I have just rediscovered Gimp on the Mac, and it produces wonderfully upscaled images and it is the faster editor I have. All my images are and have almost always been filed in folders, dated, with a name of place, in file name. Since the last few years in C1 Sessions.

[Guest]

For BW images show with the M11, using the same DNG from this thread as before, I found a promising converter with AccuRaw Monochrome (Mac only). I would zero all sliders (including Artifact Supression and Post-demosaic filter) and not make any changes; this also works to batch process a folder of DMGs. Then export to TIFF, change contrast and sharpen in Photoshop. More work than just single click in Lightroom, I like the results better so far (not 100% fair, as due to poor contrast and sharpen adjustments in AccuRaw I decided to utilize Photoshop with plug-ins for that, so Adobe is still in the mix):

Lightroom - no adjustments (other than "Adobe Monochrome" profile):

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AccuRaw Monochrome - no adjustments, disabled Demosaic filters; added contrast and sharpened in Photoshop:

Edited March 13, 2022 by Guest

[adan]

First of all - THANKS to those who have provided M11 .DNG samples so far!

However, they don't yet directly address the key capability that will determine whether the M11 offers a sufficient upgrade for me.

How well do the higher ISOs of the M11 perform under "rough" lighting, with moving subjects (shutter speed 180th-1/250th minimum, f/2.8-f/4, ISO 20000-50000), and low kelvin temperature (yellow artificial light). In color?

The pictures below are M10 pictures, and small uploads, only to illustrate the situations I chase. The samples are exposures at ISO 10000-12500, pushed an additional 2 stops in post-processing (effective ISO 40000-50000). Pictures amade with 21 f/2.8, 28 f/2.8, and 135mm f/4.0.

The M10 is on the ragged edge in such situations - requiring marginal shutter speeds, and/or producing shadow banding. I need to see how much better the M11 can do (at both 60 Mpixels and 18 Mpixels.)

Anyone adventurous enough to find some real-world back alleys at night, or similar places with really marginal brightness and lighting spectrum, and people in motion (riot police, demonstrators and tear gas not required )?

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Edited March 18, 2022 by adan

[adan]

...and

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[Guest]

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8 hours ago, adan said:

First of all - THANKS to those who have provided M11 .DNG samples so far!

However, they don't yet directly address the key capability that will determine whether the M11 offers a sufficient upgrade for me.

How well do the higher ISOs of the M11 perform under "rough" lighting, with moving subjects (shutter speed 180th-1/250th minimum, f/2.8-f/4, ISO 20000-50000), and low kelvin temperature (yellow artificial light). In color?

The pictures below are M10 pictures, and small uploads, only to illustrate the situations I chase. The samples are exposures at ISO 10000-12500, pushed an additional 2 stops in post-processing (effective ISO 40000-50000). Pictures amade with 21 f/2.8, 28 f/2.8, and 135mm f/4.0.

The M10 is on the ragged edge in such situations - requiring marginal shutter speeds, and/or producing shadow banding. I need to see how much better the M11 can do (at both 60 Mpixels and 18 Mpixels.)

Anyone adventurous enough to find some real-world back alleys at night, or similar places with really marginal brightness and lighting spectrum, and people in motion (riot police, demonstrators and tear gas not required )?

Thanks for sharing the images! If better low light performance is your highest priority, the best Leica by far (unless you consider the Monochrome models) might be the SL2-S. Better than M11 in low light for sure. Would that be an option or do you have a strong preference for the rangefinder? YouTube video with direct comparison here, about 20 minutes in, you can use the subtitles with auto translation if your German is rusty or non existent.

[adan]

Only interested in a rangefinder camera, with compact lenses (E46 or smaller), producing files 24 Mpixels or smaller (at least as an option).