tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #41 Posted January 23, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Right: I just shot an entire series at different ISO with pixel binning at. full/med/small resolutions and using Fotos app on iPhone to set the resolution and trigger the shots. Imported them into LR and they were all the same resolution. SO there's a bug in Fotos that seems to but in fact does not allow the selection of resolution. As I put my tripod away I said to myself - 'this is Leica. There will be something wrong with this and I will have to shoot it again.... don't shorten he legs and tighten them..' So I'm all set to shoot it again. Grrrr... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 Hi tashley, Take a look here The M11 Raw files access thread. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #42 Posted January 23, 2022 OK here's a series of shots at a range of useful ISO from 64 to 50k The scene was chosen to give a range of colours and some OOF and darker areas where noise can more easily be seen to lurk. I purposefully overexposed the files A LOT (+2 1/3rd) so that the blinks were going crazy in some of the brighter areas. I would estimate that about one eighth of the fame was blinking. However at most ISOs these areas are not showing as blown in LR other than in small areas though at some ISOs and in some colour channels they are. The purpose of doing this was to see if the binned versions handle overexposure better in terms of highlight protection. You be the judge. APO 50mm at F2 on a tripod with 2 second delay because the Fotos app has now shown itself to be an unreliable way of controlling the camera - see above. One last thing: the files for some utterly bizarre reason show as being the right way up in the camera review, but are upside down as RAWs so you will have to flip them yourself. I have literally no idea what that is all about but it's bloody annoying. Here's the scene and then links to all the RAW files by ISO and resolution will be uploaded slowly. You'll need to normalise exposure as I have done in this preview: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328894-the-m11-raw-files-access-thread/?do=findComment&comment=4365430'>More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #43 Posted January 23, 2022 ISO 64 Large, Medium Small: https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g1047376481-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=U9bhbZcp4FyWPwDqChE5TBiU4TpS-2UH4m4ljYIN7eE= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g1066000474-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=By4FelJez1IzS80dz5rRbQb1ihVuY1aQ7J3WkpOSB8A= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g556322390-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=sa-N3zED6Eghm7pKgRDqgiQkc6337huhHR1d6aY8SXw= 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 23, 2022 Share #44 Posted January 23, 2022 52 minutes ago, tashley said: Right: I just shot an entire series at different ISO with pixel binning at. full/med/small resolutions and using Fotos app on iPhone to set the resolution and trigger the shots. Imported them into LR and they were all the same resolution. SO there's a bug in Fotos that seems to but in fact does not allow the selection of resolution. As I put my tripod away I said to myself - 'this is Leica. There will be something wrong with this and I will have to shoot it again.... don't shorten he legs and tighten them..' So I'm all set to shoot it again. Grrrr... it maybe a bug... the resolution change in app is only changing the JPG. if you need to change the raw size you can do it in camera when connected... it feels like the FOTOS app is a permanent beta 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #45 Posted January 23, 2022 ISO 400 Large, Medium, Small: https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g781102891-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=wfREhSdmWMrbZC7pToOikhUi7pkZjWFPk5HYtqpg044= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g1058667602-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=dRhJXJ4KkrZ8MaDcFzGKURiizcBbI4N5VUsjg4bnH48= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g711347709-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=QeRz0wnIwAM6n_SN3H5NxGTYXCyYXHc5adPr9GRnaLQ= 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #46 Posted January 23, 2022 ISO 800 Large, Medium, Small: https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g696847259-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=KEn5SeVkULCybc2GOgr8xGnsQ3lbeLodARi9tZlK9H0= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g891447405-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=iPDYSISltDpgNyB_3KF4TRGEzr-3Q3WO-0NMgUOuksQ= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g965069118-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=An7i0f0IvSQWS2VRn1LTguuucGKuN0rF919HM_Q3jkI= 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #47 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) ISO 1600 Large, Medium, Small: https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g931706682-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=1sgfv4LHG3xl6Zb7NwgkJTvQh5uA1w29WMNkiJJLICs= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g545178725-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=L9Sut_uM8vAorEkNQ59FIjNphRresN46nzXG1Z8-jZo= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g627008823-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=OI6NM_cN1dT9B7o-nwhUnBUgNhzWMC85uDg-UmY_jUY= Edited January 23, 2022 by tashley 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #48 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) ISO 3200 Large, Medium, Small: https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g936009941-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=pEKMptCR_kNEwqzP6DeSzNU3PfVdhumrjcHL2VlnzZU= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g856244736-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=AQg3BbnhgoHZ_Yk3afuyqKJ7OE6Z69xX8mSND_FuAak= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g852710315-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=h-VdYSfc6qVZLmskQvXsKqMnBFNJqDZErx2OskNG5hE= Edited January 23, 2022 by tashley 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #49 Posted January 23, 2022 ISO 6400 Large, Medium, Small: https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g963251921-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=oWIf_2w6bp-KwXU3tbx-BK19BlXjKJuixiYh85sZ0lI= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g587103434-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=y7l2QsFwF-MrefnHugXJIzEQ4OqtfhP-1joEGJ-l1YQ= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g694471796-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=5IsPU6AxfP8Psucs56nlLVmtFY44aQ1jfFtow7FddYk= 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #50 Posted January 23, 2022 ISO 12,500 Large, Medium, Small: https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g909847998-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=ogJUXL1vm-UCSOr-CWC4UypDb3YJUy5tliZ5NwqFMNQ= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g733257456-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=2-ZKdsl7noBFityGg8FFjcDdgQ6BmOI9_ai0XUVck_Q= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g724089576-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=wd2uPaRd6yDGwh0wwgU3esBI0GRhTRvUF7ybABvdD-I= 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #51 Posted January 23, 2022 ISO 25,000 Large, Medium, Small: https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g675866123-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=FXH8zJpYTWSlmUWMJp9UpbNnjBmgXIWicJDRHTmTXaM= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g762988982-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=drhi-QO5kmGs2YpH_bhJsRY-rIBV4JR5ngYEt88--_0= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g994817970-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=DUTrcw_D8k_5F3cQ-dbCNxjjqpaMg1CKu_QKLDIABTA= 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #52 Posted January 23, 2022 ISO 50,000 Large, Medium, Small: https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g1029000428-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=5MOsxYSvI2ccgXWKpdvZHPGcPujj9KUGlgU30H8pXEc= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g1033154075-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=e2osQA78HMaUiGpwTz7YagRhjL5zvdzFxZowsCAU2cE= https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/g662896671-o374332360.dat?dl=2&tk=o4SOM8CM7bcoRc9wBrxhE_Ns6c7N0EqV7GAjQxaglk8= 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanno Posted January 23, 2022 Share #53 Posted January 23, 2022 Thanks for sharing all these pictures and for all your time and efforts. 😀🙏 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #54 Posted January 23, 2022 It’s my pleasure and I look forward to anyone who looks through them sharing their observations! 1 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted January 23, 2022 Share #55 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Many thanks again for sharing these DNGs. You’ve made a phenomenal effort here, and I’m very appreciative for your work as I’m sure many others probably are. So you ask about observations? Well …. (1) my maximum print size is 60”, and that’s partly why I used 5x4 film and a GFX100S. So I was curious to play with these DNGs at that same output size. What I see has surprised me …..in many ways the files remind me a LOT of the resolution of 100mp off the GFX100S. Clearly no apples-to-apples comparison is possible here, but my gut feel on screen of similar subjects (like the grass in posts #26, 30 and 31) is that the M11 isn’t really missing anything obvious of the fine detail I enjoy from the 100mp camera. IMHO maybe the exceptionally good Leica lenses are picking up some of the slack here in capturing equivalent fine detail, even though it’s “just” 60mp? (2) I’ve previously disliked some of the lenses such as the 35mm Summilux on prior cameras, thinking at the time they were a bit edgily sharp and “digital”. Whereas the output I see here has really none of that. I simply see smoother rendering of these lenses. I have to say, the rendering of your 90mm in #20 also looks wonderful ….at 60” on screen, it looks a so smooth in the transitions and the output to me feels really 5x4’esque there. (3) I find the GFX100S and even my SL2 + SL 50 APO are bordering on the “too sharpened” even when sharpening is set to zero in ACR. It’s perhaps very high acuity I see with those cameras, with high contrast of the lenses creating a “sharper than film would ever be” rendering by default and it’s not a look I like because it makes the output more obviously digital to my eyes. If it’s already too sharp with sharpening at zero, it’s difficult to tame. So perhaps my biggest observation with the M11 is DNGs have a starting point that isn’t “excessively and digitally sharp” (for my taste) ….which makes getting a gentler and more cinematic rendering from the M11 a whole lot easier than I’ve ever found on the GFX or SL2. If I get an M11, it would probably be for that one observation more than anything. Edited January 23, 2022 by Jon Warwick 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 23, 2022 Share #56 Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said: Many thanks again for sharing these DNGs. You’ve made a phenomenal effort here, and I’m very appreciative for your work as I’m sure many others are. So you ask about observations? Well …. (1) my maximum print size is 60”, and that’s partly why I used 5x4 film and a GFX100S. So I was curious to play with these DNGs at that same output size. What I see has surprised me …..in many ways the files remind me a LOT of the resolution of 100mp off the GFX100S. Clearly no apples-to-apples comparison is possible here, but my gut feel on screen of similar subjects (like the grass in posts #26, 30 and 31) is that the M11 isn’t really missing anything obvious of the fine detail I enjoy from the 100mp camera. IMHO maybe the exceptionally good Leica lenses are picking up some of the slack here in capturing equivalent fine detail, even though it’s “just” 60mp? (2) I’ve previously disliked some of the lenses such as the 35mm Summilux on prior cameras, thinking at the time they were a bit edgily sharp and “digital”. Whereas the output I see here has really none of that. I simply see smoother rendering of these lenses. I have to say, the rendering of your 90mm in #20 also looks wonderful ….at 60” on screen, it looks a so smooth in the transitions. The output to me feels really 5x4’esque here. (3) I find the GFX100S and even my SL2 + SL 50 APO are bordering on the “too sharpened” even when sharpening is set to zero in ACR. It’s perhaps very high acuity I see with those cameras, with high contrast of the lenses creating a “sharper than film would ever be” rendering by default and it’s not a look I like because it makes the output more obviously digital to my eyes. If it’s already too sharp with sharpening at zero, it’s difficult to tame. So perhaps my biggest observation with the M11 is DNGs have a starting point that isn’t “excessively and digitally sharp” (for my taste) ….which makes getting a gentler and more cinematic rendering from the M11 a whole lot easier than I’ve ever found on the GFX or SL2. If I get an M11, it would probably be for that one observation alone. I may start using M11, where I would have previously used GFX100S instead. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #57 Posted January 23, 2022 35 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said: Many thanks again for sharing these DNGs. You’ve made a phenomenal effort here, and I’m very appreciative for your work as I’m sure many others probably are. So you ask about observations? Well …. (1) my maximum print size is 60”, and that’s partly why I used 5x4 film and a GFX100S. So I was curious to play with these DNGs at that same output size. What I see has surprised me …..in many ways the files remind me a LOT of the resolution of 100mp off the GFX100S. Clearly no apples-to-apples comparison is possible here, but my gut feel on screen of similar subjects (like the grass in posts #26, 30 and 31) is that the M11 isn’t really missing anything obvious of the fine detail I enjoy from the 100mp camera. IMHO maybe the exceptionally good Leica lenses are picking up some of the slack here in capturing equivalent fine detail, even though it’s “just” 60mp? (2) I’ve previously disliked some of the lenses such as the 35mm Summilux on prior cameras, thinking at the time they were a bit edgily sharp and “digital”. Whereas the output I see here has really none of that. I simply see smoother rendering of these lenses. I have to say, the rendering of your 90mm in #20 also looks wonderful ….at 60” on screen, it looks a so smooth in the transitions and the output to me feels really 5x4’esque there. (3) I find the GFX100S and even my SL2 + SL 50 APO are bordering on the “too sharpened” even when sharpening is set to zero in ACR. It’s perhaps very high acuity I see with those cameras, with high contrast of the lenses creating a “sharper than film would ever be” rendering by default and it’s not a look I like because it makes the output more obviously digital to my eyes. If it’s already too sharp with sharpening at zero, it’s difficult to tame. So perhaps my biggest observation with the M11 is DNGs have a starting point that isn’t “excessively and digitally sharp” (for my taste) ….which makes getting a gentler and more cinematic rendering from the M11 a whole lot easier than I’ve ever found on the GFX or SL2. If I get an M11, it would probably be for that one observation more than anything. Thank you! I feel the same in many ways, though it is still quite early days with the M11. My task for the next few days is going to be to shoot some frames on my IQ4 digital back (150mp) and compare them to the same scene shot with critical care on the M11 and then given then Enhance treatment. Nearly all my prints are to around 36" but sometimes I want to go to 60" and I think I might get away with it. I also think that most people who end up purchasing prints from me are not interested in resolution. As long as it doesn't look 'wrong' they mostly want to stand back and enjoy the image itself. I've just sold out of an edition of prints shot on an M8 and heavily cropped and no one blinked at the slightly impressionistic effect, though that was part of the rendering intent of the image. The 90mm Macro Elmar is a lovely little lens. It weighs nothing, is (for na M lens) cheap and has not run out of road on a 60mp sensor. It and my F1 Nocti are the only lenses I kept when I left the M ecosystem a few years back and I will never sell them as long as I can afford to eat! The 50 App that these were shot with does in some circumstances show more aberrations on the M11 than you'd hope for in an APO lens but being APO does mean that it is very very sharp indeed, though ti does also have a jolly nice rendering. I think the comparison with the IQ180 will be at least as much about glass as it is about sensor. The 35 FLE is wonderful too but as I observed of it in a review aq few years back, it does have a surprising tendency for parts of the filed to wander in and out of focus. You have to peep to see it but it's there and the M11 makes it not obvious but at least more visible. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankX Posted January 23, 2022 Share #58 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Many thanks for your work! So far, I took a look only at the ISO 50000 files. Really stunning results for a 60 MP sensor. IMO the large file yields overall better quality even at screen size (16" MBP) in Photoshop. However, I was REALLY impressed by the DeNoise AI performance with this file. This great software seems to work even better with the hi-res M11 files compared to the 47 MP SL2 files... Here is an example (100% crop) of the 60 MP DNG imported in Photoshop with no noise reduction and then converted using DeNoise AI 3.4... Wow! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 23, 2022 by FrankX 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328894-the-m11-raw-files-access-thread/?do=findComment&comment=4365827'>More sharing options...
tashley Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #59 Posted January 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, FrankX said: Many thanks for your work! So far, I took a look only at the ISO 50000 files. Really stunning results for a 60 MP sensor. IMO the large file yields overall better quality even at screen size (16" MBP) in Photoshop. However, I was REALLY impressed by the DeNoise AI performance with this file. This great software seems to work even better with the hi-res M11 files compared to the 47 MP SL2 files... Here is an example (100% crop) of the 60 MP DNG imported in Photoshop with no noise reduction and then converted using DeNoise AI 3.4... Wow! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! That's quite impressive! I don't mind a bit of noise so I would go for a tad more sharpening and a touch less NR personally but that really is pretty darned good! One thing to bear in mind: these files are aggressively exposed 'to the right' to the extent of showing a little clipping in places. I did this in order to compare DR across the different resolutions per ISO so I actively wanted a little clipping. As a side effect, you might argue that a file exposed with +2 1/3rd stop at 50,000 is actually exposed at around 9,000-10,000.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankX Posted January 23, 2022 Share #60 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) vor 13 Minuten schrieb tashley: That's quite impressive! I don't mind a bit of noise so I would go for a tad more sharpening and a touch less NR personally but that really is pretty darned good! One thing to bear in mind: these files are aggressively exposed 'to the right' to the extent of showing a little clipping in places. I did this in order to compare DR across the different resolutions per ISO so I actively wanted a little clipping. As a side effect, you might argue that a file exposed with +2 1/3rd stop at 50,000 is actually exposed at around 9,000-10,000.... It looks a little bit sharper before exporting since JPEG quality was set to only 'good'. Otherwise, the file size would have been above 2 MB. The complete photo at the highest JPEG quality levels yields a 89 MB JPEG file. 😊 However, you right about ISO. I think, I reduced overall exposure by 2 stops. Thus, it is more like ISO 12500. However, quite clean after DeNoising... (and much sharper at highest JPEG quality!). P.S.: I wasn't a given that a +2 stops overexposure doesn't harm the quality at ISO 50000. There seems to be nothing lost in the overexposed highlights! Edited January 23, 2022 by FrankX 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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