Leica M10 firmware Update (being done to mount the new Visoflex to an older M10).

[MikeMyers]

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@Adam Bonn, thanks - I guess there's no reason not to update my M10 firmware, if for no other reason than to be up to date.  I assume this will not interfere with my old Visoflex adding the GPS information to my images, as long as it is on the camera.  I'll have to verify, but I think this works even with Live View turned off.

Another thought, from a thread entered by @LUF Adminhas me re-evaluating things.  The list to me is a summary of the potential benefits of upgrading from M10 to M11, but it omits those things I will lose in the upgrade to the new camera.  For example, GPS.  Because the new Visoflex lacks this feature, I have no more interest in replacing my old one.  Forget the additional $700 cost, and the nice but not necessary more modern looks, I've gotten spoiled by the old GPS because of this feature.

The alternative seems to be to use my M11 along with an Apple phone or tablet, which somehow will provide geo-tagging.  

M11 performance

There are 13 things on this list, most of which are benefits over the M10.  To me, all but two are nice, but not that important to me.  The improvement in dynamic range would be very helpful for many of the photos I take, and I suspect a base of ISO 64 would also be good - but I'm getting on fine with what I've got.  The larger sensor, 14-bit color depth, removable base plate, larger battery, USB-C, electronic shutter, 64 GB internal memory, larger buffer, new metering system, and the new Visoflex would be good reasons for buying a new M11 rather than an old M10.  

Since I already have an M10, and assuming it might cost me between $4,000 and $5,000 to upgrade, should I upgrade the body, or put the money into a new Leica lens?

 

Back to where this topic started, camera firmware, unless I can find confirmation that I won't "lose" any features, such as the GPS, I'll likely leave things alone.  And since the Visoflex2 doesn't include a GPS, I no longer want to buy one.  

I wonder - if I find a way to buy the new M11, and I use my existing Visoflex on it, will the camera continue to record GPS information, or has that capability been removed from the M11 ? 

......suggestion for new tool - for those of us who already own an iPhone, could the iPhone communicate with a camera to record the geotagging inside the camera, rather than on images transferred to the phone using Fotos ?

Edited January 15, 2022 by MikeMyers

[Wandering Photographer]

I was hoping the new Visio attachment would have a better GPS response. Otherwise I do not see the point in upgrading to the new one on my M10-R. Will the old Visio work with the new M11 and give GPS coordinates with it?

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[strohscw]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb Wandering Photographer:

I was hoping the new Visio attachment would have a better GPS response. Otherwise I do not see the point in upgrading to the new one on my M10-R. Will the old Visio work with the new M11 and give GPS coordinates with it?

The new Visio does not have GPS.

[MikeMyers]

57 minutes ago, Wandering Photographer said:

Will the old Visio work with the new M11 and give GPS coordinates with it?

I would like to know this as well.  If Leica is changing things so the M11 doesn't work with the old Visoflex, and only works with Apple's iPhone and geotagging, that would be a step backward.  I guess I'm getting spoiled.    

[RexGig0]

No GPS in this newest EVF? Some things truly do puzzle me. 

[M11 for me]

vor 1 Minute schrieb RexGig0:

No GPS in this newest EVF? Some things truly do puzzle me. 

Should not puzzle you: As a metal device it can physically not carry a GPS. The solution via mobile phone is indeed much better. So the problem is fully solved.

[MikeMyers]

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I disagree - as I understand it, if I send my photos to my iPhone or iPad using Leica Fotos app, the photos will be geotagged on the phone.  I see nothing about the phone sending information back to the camera with geotagging information, but yes, that would be good, at least for people with iPhones.

Why did they change the material for the new Visoflex?  If metal is no good for GPS, they shouldn't have used metal.   At a minimum they could design a plug-in GPS that fits into the accessory shoe, and adds the GPS information to the images, just as the current Visoflex does.

For me, the only issue with the Visoflex is that I have to remove my "Thumbs-Up" first.  I need/want the ThumbsUP more than I usually want the GPS info, but I'm usually using the Visoflex when my M10 is on my tripod.  Oh well.  Ain't nothing perfect.

[RexGig0]

33 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

Should not puzzle you: As a metal device it can physically not carry a GPS. The solution via mobile phone is indeed much better. So the problem is fully solved.

Ah, yes, aluminum construction. Well, I reckon that an all-metal exterior is more aesthetically pleasing, so, I will give Leica credit, for that. The adjustable diopter would be helpful, too. Pending favorable reviews, and whether or not I like the Zeiss 25mm ZM lens that is en route to my address, I may yet buy a Visoflex 2. (I already have a non-electronic Leica 21mm Bright Line Viewfinder, for shooting with my 21mm lens.)

As for geo-tagging, while my M10 and iPad are connected, well, I am trying that, right now, and the Leica app is telling me that geo-tagging is not available, for my M10. So, geo-tagging may be a moot point, anyway. 

If I can, by FW update, enable geo-tagging, I wonder about phone battery drain, when using an iPhone to provide GPS. Carrying a battery pack, or a solar charger, for the iPhone, is yet another thing to add to an ever-lengthening check-list. (I have accumulated several extra batteries, for the M10.)

[M11 for me]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb RexGig0:

Ah, yes, aluminum construction. Well, I reckon that an all-metal exterior is more aesthetically pleasing, so, I will give Leica credit, for that. The adjustable diopter would be helpful, too. Pending favorable reviews, and whether or not I like the Zeiss 25mm ZM lens that is en route to my address, I may yet buy a Visoflex 2. (I already have a non-electronic Leica 21mm Bright Line Viewfinder, for shooting with my 21mm lens.)

As for geo-tagging, while my M10 and iPad are connected, well, I am trying that, right now, and the Leica app is telling me that geo-tagging is not available, for my M10. So, geo-tagging may be a moot point, anyway. 

If I can, by FW update, enable geo-tagging, I wonder about phone battery drain, when using an iPhone to provide GPS. Carrying a battery pack, or a solar charger, for the iPhone, is yet another thing to add to an ever-lengthening check-list. (I have accumulated several extra batteries, for the M10.)

you are correct. Geotagging is nit available for the M10. I use an app called GeoTagr from the App Store that does a good job. Another reason to buy the M11 😇

[RexGig0]

42 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

you are correct. Geotagging is nit available for the M10. I use an app called GeoTagr from the App Store that does a good job. Another reason to buy the M11 😇

Well, it is the M10 Monochrom that I would actually buy, today, if I were to decide that I could justify spending almost $10K US. (I am still experimenting with my Monochrom 246, to determine whether to take the Monochrom path, so, I would rather not decide, today. Actually, I quite like the  M 246, and might rather that my next multi-$K purchase be a lens.)

Thanks for the reference to that app.

Edited January 15, 2022 by RexGig0

[farnz]

Will there be a firmware update for the M3 so I can use the Visoflex 2 with it too?  I'm not worried about it only being 2.4 MPx and no GPS I just don't want it to affect the AF.

Pete.

[MikeMyers]

Update for M3.........      Naw, Don does all of those.   🙂

Or, you could start with one of these....    

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[rramesh]

Visoflex 2 on an M10 series.

Pros

• Better build quality with an all aluminium body. 
• Sleeker.
• More secure and likely to be knocked off.
• Opening and closing with magnets and stops at 45 and 90.

Cons

• Lower resolution of 2.4 MP.
• Unless the image is sized up the visible area will be smaller due to resolution loss.
• No GPS. Only possible with a slower connection to the iPhone or iPad.
• With a metal body and an off-center hotshot mount, will likely cause bright marks on the top plate even with the rubber bumpers.

[rramesh]

5 hours ago, M10 for me said:

you are correct. Geotagging is nit available for the M10. I use an app called GeoTagr from the App Store that does a good job. Another reason to buy the M11 😇

Geotagging

First made available with Leica FOTOS 1.3 in July 2019, Geotagging has been limited to photos taken with the Remote function in the app. After much user feedback, we are improving this feature to allow Geotagging for every photo taken by the camera. Whenever a photo is taken, the camera “asks” the mobile device for the current location and the camera saves it to the metadata. Due to the need for a low power connection between camera and mobile devices, this feature can only be used with Bluetooth-enabled Leica cameras: the Leica SL2, Leica Q2, Leica D-Lux 7, Leica C-Lux and Leica V-Lux 5.

There are two methods for operating the new Geotagging feature in Leica FOTOS 2.1:

• While in the app: As soon as Leica FOTOS is opened all connected Bluetooth cameras can get Geotags
• Always [Beta]: Geotagging always works, even when your mobile device is locked – this option is currently in Public Beta

To enable Geotagging, tap the menu icon with the 3 dots and tap on Geotagging. Choose between “While in the app” and “Always [Beta]”. Make sure to confirm the system alert with “Allow While Using the App”. When opting-in for the Always [Beta] option, make sure to confirm the system alert that you “Allow Always”.

From RedDotForum

Edited January 16, 2022 by rramesh

[mrginger]

Just for clarity, I've got the Visoflex 020 and the new Visoflex II.  The newer one has a larger EVF and it looks very much like once it's scaled down to 2.4M dots on the M10 it will end up the same width and height image in the EVF as the 020 currently has.  It looks like the new one will be better for glasses wearers though.  It's more like the Q2 viewfinder.  Didn't realise I'd need to wait a couple of months for the firmware though!

[jdlaing]

On 1/15/2022 at 3:33 PM, farnz said:

Will there be a firmware update for the M3 so I can use the Visoflex 2 with it too?  I'm not worried about it only being 2.4 MPx and no GPS I just don't want it to affect the AF.

Pete.

Look along the bottom edge of the sprocket holes. You’ll see the coordinates.

[Mikep996]

I have the 020 and have always been happy with its performance.  I agree that it's a bit clunky looking but since it is not always on my camera, that's not really an issue to me.  The new one seems to offer absolutely NOTHING other than being less clunky-looking AND it eliminates geo-tagging unless you link it to your iPhone. 

I know that it has a greater resolution (with an M11) but I have never seen the resolution of my 020/M10 to be any sort of issue - it's just a viewfinder, it's not "the camera."  Again, I don't regularly use it so maybe if it was "permanently mounted," I might feel differently.

So from my view, as far as use on an M10,, they seem to have made a more expensive EVF that does less so it can look a little better. 

FWIW, I got back into Leica two years ago after a 18 year absence, buying a used M10.  It was my first digital Leica and I decided I wanted the EVF for wide lenses.  I decided I didn't want to look like the typical digital camera user, staring at the back of the camera to set up shots with my 21mm lens.  But to be honest, I got over it.  So I seldom use the EVF now.  When I use the 21 I just use the display.

HOWEVER, I will admit I like geo-tracking and wish the camera could inherently do it without any add-ons.  I'm always impressed with my iPhone 11Pro's impressively accurate tagging.

[SrMi]

On 1/15/2022 at 5:00 PM, rramesh said:

Visoflex 2 on an M10 series.

Pros

• Better build quality with an all aluminium body. 
• Sleeker.
• More secure and likely to be knocked off.
• Opening and closing with magnets and stops at 45 and 90.

Cons

• Lower resolution of 2.4 MP.
• Unless the image is sized up the visible area will be smaller due to resolution loss.
• No GPS. Only possible with a slower connection to the iPhone or iPad.
• With a metal body and an off-center hotshot mount, will likely cause bright marks on the top plate even with the rubber bumpers.

Another pro:

- Does not cover the shutter speed dial, easier to see which speed is set.

[rramesh]

It would have been awesome if Leica had designed a pass through hot shoe flash mount for the Visoflex 2. 

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Hallo,

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[tappan]

It’s hard to follow with all of the updates, and threads here, but does anybody know yet if the new Visoflex  will have image stabilization while on the M10-P? Thank you