Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]

[nicci78]

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4 minutes ago, pop said:

Please stop that now. This is simply not true. Every manual I've ever seen on the topic says that the framelines in the Pixii camera outline the area which is going to be shown in the image when you use a lens of the matching focal length.

This is more than can be said for - say  - the Leica M6 which brought up two sets of framelines for every single focal length, thus endlessly confusing the beginning M user.

Sorry a quick check at their tiny online manual. No mention at all. But you can show me where it is written. I would be glad to read it. 
 

Now you are saying that I right too. If framelines show the image that is going to be taken. 28mm framelines = 42mm field of view. Thanks for that. 
 

[pop]

3 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Right or wrong. We need a definitive answer to settle it once for all. 

Please. Stop. That. Now.

Everyone here always knew that the camera had a sensor the same size as the (digital) Leica CL. No one here ever thought that the field of view of any lens on the Pixii was the same as on a full frame M Leica. Very few were in doubt that the framelines in the finder of the Pixii showed anything but the field of view of a lens with the matching focal length.

So what's the problem?

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[nicci78]

2 minutes ago, pop said:

Again, this is complete nonsense. You can buy the camera and return it within two weeks. And, as you say, it's a French outfit. They are in the Bourgogne and they would gladly show you one should you show up on their premises, I'm sure.

Sorry not the same to shell out +3000€ then get the hassle to ship it back at my own expense just to try a camera. Than to just try it firsthand in a shop. 
Your mileage may vary. But it is a major inconvenience for me. 
At least Pixii can showcase its products at Paris Salon de la photographie. But they never bother. 

[pop]

9 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

But you can show me where it is written. I would be glad to read it. 

Quote

Framelines delineate the portion of the scene captured by the image sensor. Framelines depend on the lens selected by the FRAME option in the camera menu. Framelines follow the lens focus adjustments with an automated parallax correction mechanism.

from: https://pixii.fr/user-manual

Edited December 29, 2022 by pop

[nicci78]

Pixii owners are getting too emotional. 
This is what I like said : 

Pixii viewfinder is only offering full frame equivalent field of view of 42-50-60-75mm which is less practical than digital M 28-35-50-75-90-135mm with the bonus of optional EVF. 
 

It is just a fact and prospective buyers may be happy to understand the drawbacks. They can think whatever about this information. I don’t care but I am allowed to say it out loud. 
If it bothers you just ask David  to release a major revision of Pixii. 

[nicci78]

5 minutes ago, pop said:

from: https://pixii.fr/user-manual

The sentence used in the manual did not clarify the whole debate here. 
It is not crystal clear. 
 

But we can now agree that Pixii 28mm framelines is equivalent to full frame 42mm field of view

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Edited December 29, 2022 by nicci78

[loloboubou1]

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I warned you 😉 never feed a troll!

Just to laugh: tell him that the focal length selected by the user (by choosing focal length from the menu after pressing the menu key) is displayed in clear in the viewfinder (with 2 digits, for example 2 and 8 for a 28mm, 3 and 5 lens for a 35 mm lens).

Sorry for the interest of the answer but I advise you to explain everything to him by decomposing each step. Be charitable ! 

Do not ask him in which of his OVF he benefits from the display of menu information. 

[loloboubou1]

18 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

But we can now agree that Pixii 28mm framelines is equivalent to full frame 42mm field of view

 

YES ! He understood !!!!!! Alleluia ! Like what to learn by solving problems is the best! He will now move from GRIII to GRIII x knowing why he does it

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by loloboubou1

[lct]

10 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Pixii viewfinder is only offering full frame equivalent field of view of 42-50-60-75mm which is less practical than digital M 28-35-50-75-90-135mm [...]

Setting aside EVFs that Pixii replaces by a smartphone sort of, the idea or covering 3 or 4 focal lengths only in not good or bad IMO, it is a deliberate choice of the manufacturer because he thinks multiplying focal lengths is not necessarily relevant. There is a thing i liked in the R-D1 it has no pairs of framelines contrary to Leica. What a pleasure to have only one frameline in the VF! Then i used mainly 28, 35 and 50mm lenses this way plus a 21mm with this accessory viewfinder. 

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[loloboubou1]

8 minutes ago, lct said:

 Then i used mainly 28, 35 and 50mm lenses this way plus a 21mm with this accessory viewfinder. 

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There he may understand because Mr. Voigtlander wrote: 21 mm x 1.5. On the other hand, let him progress, don't give him too quickly the result in FF equivalent

[ramarren]

1 hour ago, UliWer said:

Which is generally no bad idea: you may use an adapter and you get the exact field of view for the APS-C sensor for every M-lens you may wish to adapt. No limits as far as certain frames are concerned, no interference between lenses and their hoods with the the rangefinder etc. 

I wonder why Pixii didn't just build a capable APS-C camera with electronic viewfinder....

Because, I suspect, they felt/wanted to offer a coupled optical rangefinder camera product at a lower price than what was available. Despite the limitations of the camera type, there is a consistent niche for coupled optical RF cameras, and the photographic market is fairly saturated with EVF cameras from a host of vendors. They are very different things.  

G

[ramarren]

44 minutes ago, lct said:

Setting aside EVFs that Pixii replaces by a smartphone sort of, the idea or covering 3 or 4 focal lengths only in not good or bad IMO, it is a deliberate choice of the manufacturer because he thinks multiplying focal lengths is not necessarily relevant. There is a thing i liked in the R-D1 it has no pairs of framelines contrary to Leica. What a pleasure to have only one frameline in the VF! Then i used mainly 28, 35 and 50mm lenses this way plus a 21mm with this accessory viewfinder. 

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(bolded) When I bought the M4-2 instead of the M4-P, my intent was to have the simpler viewfinder of the M4 rather than the M4-P's doubled up frame lines. In the M4 and M4-2, the only doubled up framelines are the 35/135 and they're so different one from the other that there's no possibility of mixing them up. 

On the Pixii and other APS-C cameras like the Leica X typ 113, I used a Voigtländer standard 35mm optical viewfinder when I wanted an optical viewfinder as the difference between a 35mm FoV on FF and the effective 31.5mm FoV of a 21mm on APS-C is very small ... To my way of thinking, all optical frame line type viewfinders are just approximations, and with a little use and time I know exactly what to expect regardless if the frame lines are a "perfect" theoretical match or not. 

There are similar issues with SLR viewfinders, most of which are only 88 to 92% coverage, etc; only a relatively few have a true 100% coverage view. A good photographer learns what the equipment presents and works with that understanding in mind. 

G

[pop]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

But we can now agree that Pixii 28mm framelines is equivalent to full frame 42mm field of view

Yes, it's roughly equivalent to a 70mm lens on a 6cm by 9cm format camera. Anyway, who in his right mind would install framelines in a camera that do not correspond to what the camera is going to capture on the film or sensor?

[Alberti]

On 1/9/2022 at 4:29 PM, Herr Barnack said:

BSI sensor is nice, but with an APS-C size and a maximum ISO of 12800 it is clearly not a competitor to the M10M, M10P, M10R or the soon to be announced M11, -

If I were interested in an APS-C format camera, the CL would be my choice.  

I like the newest PIXII product, while the CL (for which I waited some time) is in nowhereland now. 

The latest 2023 incarnation really looks seducing. Nice second body and incorporates in fact highlights of the leica offering or even features that would be nice on a Leica-M. 

In fact, I'm already looking how the smallest Leica lenses will fit> even the collapsibles. Such as the Minolta and VC lenses I have. Elmar. My wife took her Fuji 100 out yesterday, and was holding her finger at the bottom of the lens trying to find the focus lever (accustomed to lenses she uses on M-bodies). So yes, she certainly would be able to work with this small marvel. She hates to have to look at back-screens for instance; as well as an EVF. Three buttons? Even too much. Is it an M10-D in disguise? So here we go! 

By the way, I first thought the camera was British and made by Picts, and then French made by the Pictones. 😉 

I read some uses see it as a pet project, investing time in changing software and applying updates. I will only fumble up such things.