Ouroboros Posted September 14, 2021 Share #101 Posted September 14, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, 01maciel said: nice and moody photos 👏. Do you have some photos in colour at f1.5? Thanks. Not yet, but I'll run through some Ektar or Portra later. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 14, 2021 Posted September 14, 2021 Hi Ouroboros, Take a look here Rumor: New Heliar Classic 50mm f/1.5 VM. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Charles Morgan Posted September 14, 2021 Share #102 Posted September 14, 2021 Lovely low contrast images with discernible character that I like a lot. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 14, 2021 Share #103 Posted September 14, 2021 I look forward to a detailed imaging comparison of the Nokton and the Heliar classic at some point (I'm sure someone will do one). Just to get a sense of their relative imaging strengths and weaknesses in pictures, in case one or the other turns up used at my local shop (which is how I've acquired my 75 f/1.5 and 35 f/1.4 II). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted September 14, 2021 Share #104 Posted September 14, 2021 I look forward to a comparison with the Nokton Prominent lens ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted September 15, 2021 Share #105 Posted September 15, 2021 I am looking forward to see the samples from a M10-R. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonPB Posted September 15, 2021 Share #106 Posted September 15, 2021 From the description of the lens as having prominent coma and spherical aberration, I did not expect to like this lens. But, looking at the samples that are available... wow. The coma in this lens looks more like specular highlight blooming/glare, except that it adds movement toward the image center, and it is eliminated by stopping down. Mostly I think of "coma" as drawing wing-like structures, a blurring of the tangential plane in the corners; here, though, the coma also has a strong sagittal aspect, so while there is still a wing-like appearance, it is more like the wings are raised and joined together, so the effect is more like a fan than a wing. Add in a bit of specular highlight glare from the single coating and the visual effect becomes quite smooth... more like negative clarity that I might add (and have added) to images to achieve a mildly Impressionistic rendering. I usually expect coma to be minimal until reaching the corners where it appears suddenly and distractingly, but this combination of effects covers the entire frame fairly evenly and harmoniously. At high-contrast edges, it looks like a lens that has unusually low global contrast, the kind which cannot be resolved by stopping down before being overtaken by diffraction. Yet, as far as I can tell, not having been able to work with raw files, this lens retains quite a lot of global contrast even wide open and definitely by f/4. I expect fine details in shadows to remain present with this heliar even after setting the black point to compensate for glare -- to an extent that lenses which accomplish this look through glare alone cannot achieve. The spherical aberration is absolutely lovely. My personal benchmark in this area is the later Summicron-R, not because it is the best but because I am most familiar with it; this heliar appears to do spherical aberration, aka "Leica glow," better than the Leica. This happens because while there is tons of spheric blooming (and nearly a stop faster, to boot), I have seen almost no chromaticity to it. Again, I haven't worked with raw files, so it might have been hidden in post. But the chroma that I do see, which I've never seen as a consequence of post-processing, is the orange/cyan type that I find far more acceptable (and, incidentally, which I associate with Leica Asph lenses) than the comic-book-radioactive-goo red/green. The technical downside of all that spherical aberration is that this lens will be resolution limited. I don't know where that will become apparent -- it might already be obvious at 100% on an M9, or it might not become apparent unless at minimum focus distance on an 80 megapixel sensor, but it'll show up eventually. But that'll only possibly be an issue at wide apertures, and if you want perfect pixels wide open then you already know this lens is not what you're looking for due to the coma et al that require no magnification to see. The practical downside of spherical aberration is that there's possibly tons of focus shift. I haven't heard any user comment on this -- it usually takes intentional testing to discern rather than the first-impressions we've seen so far, which is to suggest that while it is a huge deal to some people it isn't very important to most. But this is an open question. A personal-preference effect of spherical aberration is nissen/bubble bokeh. Yet... I am oddly nonplussed by what I see. Perhaps I have seen so much harsh outlining from modern lens designs that eliminate aberrations except at their extremes, creating thinner and brighter lines than this lens' thicker but milder outlining. Or, perhaps I am used to outlines that are stretched and cropped, so these outlines, which are simpler and rounder further into the corners, are relatively pleasing. I don't like it, but neither do I find it objectionable. I expect to see many images where it is objectionable due to over-sharpening to "correct" for this lens' main trait -- negative large-structure contrast -- but that would be the photographer's fault, not that of the lens. There's also a mild back-focus field curvature at the far edges/corners. The bulk of the frame appears functionally flat, and this curvature doesn't begin until well within the vignetting-induced depth of field changes, so I don't expect it to be a practical issue. But, on close inspection, it lends a resolution characteristic typical of wide-angle lenses that I rather like, being primarily a wide-angle shooter. I'll need to reserve judgment until I see more critical reviews and/or get to play with lots of raw files. So far, I've seen only the samples folks have shared -- some delightful images, both demonstrating the lens and as photos in their own right, but likely not rejects that would illustrate things this lens does poorly. If nothing else, this lens gives me a bit of remedial education: so much of what I expect to see from lenses was what I've grown accustomed to from double-Gauss designs and complex zoom designs, and this lens is neither and so shows different family traits. Overall, my first impression is not only unexpectedly positive, but enthusiastically so. It is like someone collected a passel of aggressive lens designs from the 1950s, identified their appealing traits and rolled them into a new construction. If I had the money in my pocket, I'd soon have a tracking number instead. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted September 15, 2021 Share #107 Posted September 15, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) The sun came out briefly. A pair f/1.5 and f/5.6 with the lens with a 2 stop ND on a SL2-S. Processing same on both limited to contrast and shadows. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323521-rumor-new-heliar-classic-50mm-f15-vm/?do=findComment&comment=4275779'>More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted September 15, 2021 Share #108 Posted September 15, 2021 Another f/1.5 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323521-rumor-new-heliar-classic-50mm-f15-vm/?do=findComment&comment=4275781'>More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted September 15, 2021 Share #109 Posted September 15, 2021 And f/5.6 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323521-rumor-new-heliar-classic-50mm-f15-vm/?do=findComment&comment=4275782'>More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted September 15, 2021 Share #110 Posted September 15, 2021 2 hours ago, FrozenInTime said: Another f/1.5 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! If this is the full image the field curvature on the right side is quite extreme. Have you checked the lens for being decentered? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted September 16, 2021 Share #111 Posted September 16, 2021 On 9/14/2021 at 3:59 PM, Ouroboros said: Another: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Thanks for these. It is so refreshing (and easy on the eyes) to see photos that are not too contrasty. On 9/14/2021 at 8:59 PM, Ouroboros said: I said earlier in this thread that I think there is likely to be more to this lens than froth. froth! Love it! 😂 😂 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted September 16, 2021 Share #112 Posted September 16, 2021 16 hours ago, Al Brown said: If this is the full image the field curvature on the right side is quite extreme. Have you checked the lens for being decentered? Don't want this thread to be too artistic do we 😉 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323521-rumor-new-heliar-classic-50mm-f15-vm/?do=findComment&comment=4276122'>More sharing options...
01maciel Posted September 16, 2021 Share #113 Posted September 16, 2021 vor 29 Minuten schrieb FrozenInTime: Don't want this thread to be too artistic do we 😉 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Nice pavement anyway 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted September 16, 2021 Share #114 Posted September 16, 2021 By special request - for @Ouroboros an extra frothy image 🙂 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! With a UV filter and a pound coin sized disk of black electrical tape providing Thambar emulation 🙂 and yes normal f/1.5 image highlights also become more diffuse. 7 1 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! With a UV filter and a pound coin sized disk of black electrical tape providing Thambar emulation 🙂 and yes normal f/1.5 image highlights also become more diffuse. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323521-rumor-new-heliar-classic-50mm-f15-vm/?do=findComment&comment=4276194'>More sharing options...
01maciel Posted September 16, 2021 Share #115 Posted September 16, 2021 I like it and a very nice example of onion rings. I can even smell them! 🧅 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 16, 2021 Share #116 Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said: By special request - for @Ouroboros an extra frothy image 🙂 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! With a UV filter and a pound coin sized disk of black electrical tape providing Thambar emulation 🙂 and yes normal f/1.5 image highlights also become more diffuse. Reminds me of the disappointment I felt with the first roll of Kodachrome I took with my then new (sometime in the 1970's) 500mm catadioptric lens that I thought would be the answer to my long telephoto lens lust. I sold it shortly afterwards! Edited September 16, 2021 by Ouroboros 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted September 16, 2021 Share #117 Posted September 16, 2021 5 hours ago, FrozenInTime said: Don't want this thread to be too artistic do we 😉 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Looks 100% legit. Are you happy with the lens? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 16, 2021 Share #118 Posted September 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, Al Brown said: Looks 100% legit. Are you happy with the lens? I'm certainly happy with mine! I think CV have done a good job with the Heliar Classic. It makes an interesting character alternative to their other 50mm lenses, especially the 50mm apo-lanthar and f1.2 nokton asph, also to Leica's own 50mm summarit-m, summicron and summilux asph lenses. At £649 for a new lens that is 95% equal to Leica materials and manufacturing quality with it's own creative possibilities as a bonus, what's not to like? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted September 16, 2021 Share #119 Posted September 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Al Brown said: Looks 100% legit. Are you happy with the lens? Yes, having fun. I think it's a keeper ; character of a MS Optics lens without the ergonomic quirks. The DIY centre spot filter seems to perfectly balance out the f/1.5 falloff Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323521-rumor-new-heliar-classic-50mm-f15-vm/?do=findComment&comment=4276329'>More sharing options...
kivis Posted September 17, 2021 Share #120 Posted September 17, 2021 I have the CV 50mm F1.5 Nokton ii. Any comparisons, real world? The Heliar looks outstanding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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