Choosing a compact 28mm lens

[pippy]

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1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

...Which was why I was asking...

Yes, John, I understood that you were curious as to the relevant 'reasons' which was why I thought I might post a couple of Steven's responses which would (hopefully!) save you having to go through all the previous pages of replies.

Just trying to make things easier!

Philip.

 

[Guest]

Get the summicrom steven.................................................................just kidding pippy!

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[pippy]

24 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

Get the summicrom steven.................................................................just kidding pippy!

So funny! I can fully understand that folks coming across this thread 'new' - just having seen the title in the OP - have probably not trawled-through nigh-on 150 posts (who would?) and are just offering up their very best opinions into the mix with absolutely nothing but good intentions at heart and it's great that folk want to help as much as they feel they can.

Philip.

[Steven]

6 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

I saw it, but seems like it's sold? Very beautiful white edition, more beautiful than the safari one. I bet you'll want to get a white edition 50lux to go with it...

Addendum: Here's another way to get it

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265065936666?hash=item3db729371a:g:EGYAAOSwK-xf-KM6

The Elmarit on my watchlist is actually the regular silver version. Not as rare as the white, rarer than the black, and perfectly matching with most my favorite lenses (steel rim, silver pre fle, etc... and the summaron ?! 😆) And while it costs twice the price as the black, it costs half of the white.... 

[Steven]

2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Pause, breath, and don’t just assume that every poster is getting at you.

Are you saying this to me ? I'm confused. I didn't say anything to you. Anyway, thanks for your contribution.... Much appreciated. 

[Steven]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

I forgot for some time, 28mm lenses that I used long ago.

Just took them out to handle 😉 in LTM screw mount : Ricoh GR lens 2.8/28mm and the tiny Canon 3.5/28mm.

not as tiny as Summaron 28mm but not big.

Don't make things more complicated than they need to be please 🤪 

[Dennis]

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37 minutes ago, Steven said:

And while it costs twice the price as the black, it costs half of the white.... 

But it's four time the pink 😆 Just kidding! I never thought before about color versions, because I always thought there is nothing but black 😎

My priority is to be discreet. So black is. But I see many beautiful Leica (and not Leica) combinations. And for aesthetics, many of them totally makes sense. Black camera and silver lens looks very nice.

No gold please LOL

Edited June 9, 2021 by Dennis

[shirubadanieru]

If you want compact 28mm then look at LTM offerings for sure : ) 

1) Leica Hektor 28mm f6.3 (the first 28mm released by Leica, I got one and using it now and to be honest, much better than expected; f6.3 is pretty much the same as f5.6 in real use to be honest, so I simply meter this lens as if it were a f5.6 lens). 

2) Summaron 28mm (which you mentioned is a great one and you can buy the re-edition of course. Size is almost double of the Hektor though and not a huge difference in terms of rendering at least for me. Price wise Summaron is more expensive.)

3) Nikkor LTM 28mm f3.5 (as small as the Summaron, great performance and goes to f3.5)

4) Minolta LTM 28mm f3.5 (haven’t used it, but did use the Minolta T-1 which has the same lens, and it’s great)

5) Ricoh LTM 28mm f2.8 (the brightest 28mm and super small too; have never used it but it’s the same lens as in the GR cameras so should be great!) 

6) Canon LTM 28mm (haven’t use any of them so can’t really say much, but should be as good or better than Hektor / Summaron)


PS: I’ve tried the elmarit it before, don’t like it at all…so boring lol I don’t think you’ll like it either knowing your taste in lenses. If you really want f2.8 then go with the Ricoh instead, much smaller and more interesting rendering; But f3.5 and f2.8 is pretty much the same thing..it’s just half a stop difference, again no real impact when actually using the lens or metering (unless you shoot it with slide film and require precise metering at all times). 

Edited June 10, 2021 by shirubadanieru

[Steven]

10 hours ago, Dennis said:

But it's four time the pink 😆 Just kidding! I never thought before about color versions, because I always thought there is nothing but black 😎

My priority is to be discreet. So black is. But I see many beautiful Leica (and not Leica) combinations. And for aesthetics, many of them totally makes sense. Black camera and silver lens looks very nice.

No gold please LOL

My priority is to feel good. As of 2021, black body and silver lens makes me very happy. 

[Steven]

9 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

If you want compact 28mm then look at LTM offerings for sure : ) 

1) Leica Hektor 28mm f6.3 (the first 28mm released by Leica, I got one and using it now and to be honest, much better than expected; f6.3 is pretty much the same as f5.6 in real use to be honest, so I simply meter this lens as if it were a f5.6 lens). 

2) Summaron 28mm (which you mentioned is a great one and you can buy the re-edition of course. Size is almost double of the Hektor though and not a huge difference in terms of rendering at least for me. Price wise Summaron is more expensive.)

3) Nikkor LTM 28mm f3.5 (as small as the Summaron, great performance and goes to f3.5)

4) Minolta LTM 28mm f3.5 (haven’t used it, but did use the Minolta T-1 which has the same lens, and it’s great)

5) Ricoh LTM 28mm f2.8 (the brightest 28mm and super small too; have never used it but it’s the same lens as in the GR cameras so should be great!) 

6) Canon LTM 28mm (haven’t use any of them so can’t really say much, but should be as good or better than Hektor / Summaron)


PS: I’ve tried the elmarit it before, don’t like it at all…so boring lol I don’t think you’ll like it either knowing your taste in lenses. If you really want f2.8 then go with the Ricoh instead, much smaller and more interesting rendering; But f3.5 and f2.8 is pretty much the same thing..it’s just half a stop difference, again no real impact when actually using the lens or metering (unless you shoot it with slide film and require precise metering at all times). 

Thank you so much for your suggestion. After all, you've made me discover my (our) favourite lens of all times. Your opinion deserves that I treat it very carefully ! 

[shirubadanieru]

17 minutes ago, Steven said:

Thank you so much for your suggestion. After all, you've made me discover my (our) favourite lens of all times. Your opinion deserves that I treat it very carefully ! 

Ahah here’s some shots I took with the Hektor today, I’d say the Summaron would be similar but it has coatings and more modern glass so resolution should be higher. I am in love with this lens though, it’s so tiny! And the rendering is quite nice and sharp.

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[pippy]

Not to muddy the waters, of course, but there is also the Minolta M-Rokkor 28mm f2.8. It was originally created for use on the Minolta CLE (Minolta's Leica-sanctioned version of the Leica CL) which was introduced in 1980. Very 'Mandleresque' rendering from what I've read.

Marginally longer (5mm) than the Elmarit ASPH and around 50g lighter.

Just a thought!

Philip

Edited June 10, 2021 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

2 minutes ago, pippy said:

Not to muddy the waters, of course, but there is also the Minolta M-Rokkor 28mm f2.8. It was originally created for use on the Minolta CLE (Minolta's Leica-sanctioned version of the Leica CL) which was introduced in 1980. Very 'Mandleresque' rendering from what I've read.

Marginally longer (5mm) than the Elmarit ASPH and around 50g lighter.

Just a thought!

Philip

Philip,

I had that lens on my CLE which I admired the clever hood mounting/unmounting (lacking the cap on hood which later Leica solved the problem with Elmarit/'Cron).

Very good lens but not in the same level as "bigger" Leitz/Leica so I quickly sold it to keep Leitz lenses to use.

Lastly, the M-Rokkor 28mm can develop some white spots, so it can be very cheap for that "flaws" not easily curable.

See here for more opinions

[pippy]

24 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

...Very good lens but not in the same level as "bigger" Leitz/Leica so I quickly sold it to keep Leitz lenses to use......Lastly, the M-Rokkor 28mm can develop some white spots, so it can be very cheap for that "flaws" not easily curable...

Hi Arnaud! Thanks for the link; I knew I had read some reviews - almost all favourable where IQ and rendering are concerned - of the M-Rokkor here fairly recently but couldn't find it. Nice to read through it again! It was a lens which I was seriously considering buying for myself when the thread was current just because of its different rendering in comparison to the Elmarit asph.

The Rokkor isn't in the same IQ league as a Summicron ASPH, of course, but as we know; Steven is looking for Small and Light and the Rokkor certainly is that! I've never seen any evidence to show that the 'white spots' do very much harm unless the lens is heavily affected when (IIRC) the worst that happens is contrast is reduced and there is more tendency to flare. I've not used one myself but many of the posters in the link you have provided are sensible chaps and, in the main, they seem to like the lens very much.

If a clean(-ish) one can be found it might well be worth a try. After all; they are relatively inexpensive (in LeicaLand terms) and they will always have a target audience on the used market should it prove to be unsatisfactory.

Philip.

Edited June 10, 2021 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

Philip,

as we are talking about odd 28mm, I took out (again!) a forgotten M-Hexanon 28mm which I remember had a clever hood.

That 28mm can be the only one 28mm with screw-in orientable hood to align the hood cut-out with the viewing.

(side note, the clever hood of M-Rokkor 28mm is self-oriented), now you make me wanting it, ...Nostalgy working 28mm Rokkor-M ...again 😉.

[lct]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Hi Arnaud! Thanks for the link; I knew I had read some reviews - almost all favourable where IQ and rendering are concerned - of the M-Rokkor here fairly recently but couldn't find it. Nice to read through it again! It was a lens which I was seriously considering buying for myself when the thread was current just because of its different rendering in comparison to the Elmarit asph.

The Rokkor isn't in the same IQ league as a Summicron ASPH, of course, but as we know; Steven is looking for Small and Light and the Rokkor certainly is that! I've never seen any evidence to show that the 'white spots' do very much harm unless the lens is heavilyaffected when (IIRC) the worst that happens is contrast is reduced and there is more tendency to flare. I've not used one myself but many of the posters in the link you have provided are sensible chaps and, in the main, they seem to like the lens very much.

If a clean(-ish) one can be found it might well be worth a try. After all; they are relatively inexpensive (in LeicaLand terms) and they will always have a target audience on the used market should it prove to be unsatisfactory.

Exactly. Great little lens indeed. Not as small as the Elmarit asph but not far. Very Mandleresque as you say, matches very well Leica lenses from that era and even later ones like the current Summicron 50. Similar optical quality to me but less acutance than the Elmarit asph. My Rokkor has some white spots on the black coating of the rim but they are almost invisible there and totally invisible on photos. The hood Arnaud's referring to is superb and works like a ZM or CV one. Only issue the lens triggers 35mm frame lines on rangefinders which could be a deal breaker for newbies (including truly yours ) incapable of guesstimating FoVs. FWIW.

Edited June 10, 2021 by lct

[ianman]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Very Mandleresque

 Should we have a new unit of measure? The Mandler (Mdr for short, although I think French speakers may not approve*). Or a scale perhaps? A lens could be 5.2 on the Mandler scale. A whole new world of disagreements could be opened up before our very eyes

* Mdr  is short for Mort de rire, equivalent to LOL in English.

Edited June 10, 2021 by ianman

[pippy]

38 minutes ago, ianman said:

 Should we have a new unit of measure? The Mandler (Mdr for short, although I think French speakers may not approve*)....

* Mdr  is short for Mort de rire, equivalent to LOL in English.

Brilliant thinking! Right; I'm off to the Patents and Trade Marks Office TdS!......

In view of Ian's suggestion; if the 'Mandler' was to be adopted as a unit of measurement MdR would seem to be perfectly appropriate as the acronym...

Philip.

Edited June 10, 2021 by pippy

[ianman]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

Brilliant thinking! Right; I'm off to the Patents and Trade Marks Office TdS!......

Don't forget to mention that when a lens is 7.5 Mandlers and above, the user needs to factor in the mandlerciprocity.

Oh and pick up a form for me will you?  For a Mandler filter I'm working on,... yes, there will be a Photoshop preset too.

Sorry @Steven, I think I may be derailing your thread.... again 

 

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[SJH]

Hi Steven - I've been there in the 28mm world and personally if you already have the 28 Lux then I'd just go straight to the Summaron, it has really character and you'll clearly find it very different to the Lux. The 28mm 2.8 is to my mind a good all rounder but I can't really get passionate about it the same way as I do with these two!! From your posts I don't think you want the 'average' version

As size is your primary issue then the Summaron is really the only currently available Leica lens that makes an M coat pocketable, it's also a fabulous lens for the film M's also.  The 28mm f2 and 2.8's I suspect will be too 'middle ground' for you i.e. all rounders but lacking just that something the Lux and the Summaron have. Of course we are are now in highly 'subjective' territory!!