Choosing a compact 28mm lens

[Guest]

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1 minute ago, jdlaing said:

The modern version has a lot to do with glass formula, modern grinding and polishing and coatings. No really a true clone.

I believe leica when they say its the same optical formula but with modern coatings but that's just me.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

5 hours ago, logan2z said:

Super late to this party and I see the OP has already decided on the Summaron.  FWIW, I've been very happy with the Elmarit 2.8 ASPH (latest version) but have wondered how the Summicron would compare.  I was curious about the difference in contrast between the Elmarit and Summicron and asked a well respected dealer his opinion.  His response?  "All of the modern lenses have basically the same contrast, you won't see any difference" 🤔

Not true at all. 
The summicron is sharper and so gentle. Quite a balance. The elmarit is much harsher. 
 

Scanned film from the elmarit will confirm this, while from the summicron it will scan easier.

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[logan2z]

1 hour ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Not true at all. 
The summicron is sharper and so gentle. Quite a balance. The elmarit is much harsher. 
 

Scanned film from the elmarit will confirm this, while from the summicron it will scan easier.

I haven't noticed the Elmarit being particularly harsh.  Contrasty yes, but not over the top.  But I would like to try the Summicron at some point to see how it compares (I do shoot film exclusively and scan it for digital contact sheets).  Interestingly, the dealer I spoke to did not steer me in the direction of the much more expensive Summicron on the basis of a less contrasty rendering.    

Edited June 11, 2021 by logan2z

[shirubadanieru]

10 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Regarding #1... How can you recomend such things on a photography forum? You would never say “a summilux is in fact a noctilux, just meter at f1.2 and shoot at f1.4, same thing”, would you?

 

And #6, on top of having not used Canon lenses you haven’t used a Summaron. The summaron lens (reissue) is a Very sharp lens with very good contrast! Nothing to do with the Old and MUDDY canon optics.

it's just my personal opinion you can choose to ignore :p

In terms of lux 1.4/nocti 1.2 it's just half a stop difference so it's irrelevant for metering w/ film. That being said lux & nocti are very bright lens with dif rendering so the difference is noticeable but try shooting the nocti at f5.6 & the lux at f6.3 and let me know if you can notice any difference in rendering at those apertures (which are the same as the lens being discussed).

& I've had both ltm & remake summaron. It's sharp but so is the Nikkor, even more so as it can go to f3.5. I haven't tried the canon that's why I said that, but from the reviews online their performance should be comparable to the Nikkor, so def not muddy

 

[Ouroboros]

8 hours ago, SJH said:

Having had all the current Leica 28’s from my own perspective I think owning both the 28 Lux and the Summicron would be too close a combination compared to the Lux and the Summaron for the OP’s requirements.

Well, the OP’s requirements are one thing but you could equally make a case for owning both the summilux and summicron or the elmarit and summaron.  

This thread has bumbled along with most contributors saying the same thing since page one about pairing current Leica 28mm lenses, as I said in my first reply, if I were in his situation the summaron is the obvious choice to pair with the summilux.

 Leica are unique in offering 4 very different current options in this focal length and any combination of them is valid.
 

Leicas 28mm range is the most perfect complementary set of lenses in their  current inventory and priced across the range for most photographers to be able to afford a couple of  28’s.  

The choice of owning more than one Leica 28mm is not restricted to owning both the largest and fastest and the smallest and slowest lens because Leica have actually got the entire range right in every way.

That Leica are capable of creating such a varied range over one focal length like this makes their decision to discontinue the summarit range a rather odd one, imo.

 

[Steven]

11 hours ago, ianman said:

I second that!

I know I was teasing Steven about the shooting from the hip thing but I have seen some of his other work and that's why right from the start of this thread I wrote that I think the Summaron suits his style and he will love it! 

Thank you 😇

[tom0511]

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vor 11 Stunden schrieb logan2z:

I'm honestly not sure what makes a lens 'boring'. Do you mean you think it has no overt character of its own?  Aren't form and content the ingredients of an interesting photo, rather than optical aberrations imparted by a lens?  

My wording "boring" was probably not good choosen. Of course I agree that the "ingredients of an interesting photo, rather than optical aberrations imparted by a lens".

But I believe there are still some people here in the forum crowd, who are still having fun to "experiment" and who have fun with lenses which help to create a certain look, maybe a bit different from "just perfect/mainstream". I think it is what some might call "own signature" of a lens. Like for example at the moment I have fun to shoot 28mm shallow dof images (not allways, only if it works for the content/subject of my image). 

I am sure the 28/2.8 is technically a very good lens.  

[jdlaing]

12 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

I believe leica when they say its the same optical formula but with modern coatings but that's just me.

Glass formula not optical formula.

[lct]

6 hours ago, tom0511 said:

I am sure the 28/2.8 is technically a very good lens.  

The best compact 28/2.8 in the world, unless one can quote another one.

[nodrog]

My vote, FWIW, goes to the Elmarit. More of an all-rounder than any of the others for everyday shooting. And, since I don't really trust too much talk about such a subject, I shall simply upload some photos. 

M10 and M10M + 28mm f2.8 Elmarit-M ASPH

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[Steven]

7 hours ago, nodrog said:

My vote, FWIW, goes to the Elmarit. More of an all-rounder than any of the others for everyday shooting. And, since I don't really trust too much talk about such a subject, I shall simply upload some photos. 

M10 and M10M + 28mm f2.8 Elmarit-M ASPH

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

 

Such lovely photos. Thank you. 

I got the Summaron, and saying I am underwhelmed by it would be an understatement. 

[IkarusJohn]

3 hours ago, Steven said:

Such lovely photos. Thank you. 

I got the Summaron, and saying I am underwhelmed by it would be an understatement. 

What is it you don’t like about it?  Normally, you are very considered about the lenses you try.

[Ouroboros]

12 hours ago, Steven said:

I got the Summaron, and saying I am underwhelmed by it would be an understatement. 

If that's true, then it illustrates exactly why these types of threads are utterly pointless!

[nodrog]

11 hours ago, Steven said:

Such lovely photos. Thank you. 

I got the Summaron, and saying I am underwhelmed by it would be an understatement. 

Thank you. 

I'm also intrigued by your opinion of the Summaron, especially since I was at one time on the verge of buying it. At that time the black one wasn't available, so I dithered, and then managed to find an Elmarit, used, for less than half the price of a new Summaron. 

Incidentally, I have one more 28mm M lens, the MS Optics 28mm f4 Perar. I do like the results from this, but it's such a fiddly lens to use, with its screw on hood and focus knob that threatens to fall out every time I use it, that I rarely make the effort to shoot with it. In contrast, the Elmarit is rarely off my Monochrom now (which begs the question: why didn't I buy a Q2M? But that's another thread entirely)

[Capuccino-Muffin]

Maybe he didn’t realize that the lens wouldn’t open more than f5.6, for that magical bokeh?

[Steven]

12 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

If that's true, then it illustrates exactly why these types of threads are utterly pointless!

I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your message. If I don't like the lens, does this mean I am wrong ? Because you like it ? 

[Steven]

20 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

What is it you don’t like about it?  Normally, you are very considered about the lenses you try.

It seems to be a very limiting lens in most circumstances. And in the circumstances it does work, I thought it would excel to a point that I would forget about the sacrifices it forces to makes. But so far, not at all. Looks great in bright daylight, but nothing to write home about. 

Another thing I dislike is the handling. My other small lenses are actually small enough. This one is just too small. My fingers get in the way. 

My biggest complaint about it is the focus throw. Set at 2m and F11, not a problem. But trying to focus at the MFD is just a pain, and most of the time my fingers get in the way. 

That being said, the more I use it the more I like it. I first used it on film: not happy. Then I used it on my SL2S because my digital M was not at home: not happy. Since I got my M10R back two days ago, I think that's where it'll spend most of the time: it seems fine. But limiting. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Steven

[Guest]

Just now, Steven said:

It's seems to be a very limiting lens in most circumstances. And in the circumstances it does work, I thought it would excel to a point that I would forget about the sacrifices it forces to makes. But so far, not at all. Looks great in bright daylight, but nothing to write home about. 

Another thing I dislike is the handling. My other small lenses are actually small enough. This one is to small. My fingers get in the way. 

My biggest complaint about it is the focus throw. Set at 2m and F11, not a problem. But trying to focus at the MFD is just a pain, and most of the time my fingers get in the way. 

That being said, the more I use it the more I like it. I first used it on film: not happy. Then I used it on my SL2S because my digital M was not at home: not happy. Since I got my M10R back two days ago, I think that's where it'll spend most of the time: it seems fine. But limiting. 

What you do is teach your brain to adapt your focus method to the tiny lens because at the start your finger/thumb gets in the picture but in a very short time that does not happen at all.

Regarding the limitations of the lens because of the f5.6 max aperture ,were you not aware of that obvious fact before you bought it?

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

It seems to be a very limiting lens in most circumstances. And in the circumstances it does work, I thought it would excel to a point that I would forget about the sacrifices it forces to makes. But so far, not at all. Looks great in bright daylight, but nothing to write home about. 

Another thing I dislike is the handling. My other small lenses are actually small enough. This one is just too small. My fingers get in the way. 

My biggest complaint about it is the focus throw. Set at 2m and F11, not a problem. But trying to focus at the MFD is just a pain, and most of the time my fingers get in the way. 

That being said, the more I use it the more I like it. I first used it on film: not happy. Then I used it on my SL2S because my digital M was not at home: not happy. Since I got my M10R back two days ago, I think that's where it'll spend most of the time: it seems fine. But limiting. 

Thank you for your response, Steven. 

Surely the limitations are its size (which I thought was what you were after), the focus throw (which is true, but you do get used to it - others are worse), and that it’s a f/5.6 lens (which had already been discussed). 

I see no issue with image quality, unless you were anticipating more aberrations?

 

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[ianman]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your message. If I don't like the lens, does this mean I am wrong ? Because you like it ? 

I didn’t understand the comment that way at all. I believe it was meant to say that asking a bunch of people about their experience is not very useful, simply because it’s a personal thing.

Also you started off with 2 options... and as usual people disregard your actual question and, god knows why, they start telling you to buy the lens they have. Why? I don’t know, maybe to comfort themselves in their own insecure choice. Comfort in numbers, that sort of thing. But what really matters is your choice based on what you like and want to use the lens for. Nothing else.

That being said, you were warned about the fingers getting in the way and slow speed compared to what you seem to usually use. Based on some of your other photos I’ve seen, I truly did think that you would like the rendering of the Summaron.

Edited June 28, 2021 by ianman