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Choosing a compact 28mm lens


Steven

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1 hour ago, ianman said:

What? You don't RTFMFT like all Leica uses should!? :)

The obvious thing for you to do is get a loaner of each. I think you may find that the Summaron @ f/5.6 is plenty fast enough with your M10 (I've used it in low light situations on the M9) and the lack of shallow DoF will be largely compensated by it's character. Having seen some of your work, I am quite confident that you'll love the Summaron. But I don't know the Elmarit at all so the same could be said about that too.... not helping much am I :)

 

You're helping a lot. I need to spend some extended time with both. I will buy the Summaron and rent the Elmarit. If I end choosing the Elmarit, I will sell the Summaron to buy the Elmarit. Although my predictions is that I will love the summaron so much that it will further deepen my love for the 28mm FL, and I will add the Elmarit to my lineup and keep both 

Edited by Steven
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1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

So returning to your questioin, what are you looking for that your Summilux doesn’t give you,

The only reason why I want a second 28mm is because my Summilux is too big. As far as size, I consider both the Elmarit and the Summaron to both be small enough to fit the job description. Size is the principal motivation. The rest is secondary. 

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6 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Who says it’s a contest? 
 

In the context where a elmarit does everything well, a summicron does everything better. Not a contest, just a fact.
 

That was also Leica’s goal, I believe. Take a summicron, dumb it down to make it 1000$ cheaper. And they ended up with a elmarit, what else??

Simple, really.

The Elmarit came along before the Summicron in a 28mm lens so it is not dumbed down. When you use words like beat you make it a contest. It’s just different. Not lesser or greater.

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7 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

I had a friend who was very eager to show me his series of about 100 11x14 darkroom prints, about his trip to china. He used this lens for all the shots.

After the 10th print I started noticing the lens’ presence overshadowing the subject. By the 20th print, the subject was the lens, not the images: soft corners starring from 1/2 off the center and all the way to the corners. Simply put, bad quality. The voigtlander 21mm was even worse, starting from 1/3 off the center. 
 

Sure, digital can be corrected, but film doesn’t lie. For me, voigtlander lenses are a big no-no. Especially the first generation.

My experience of the CV28mm f3.5 color-skopar is exactly the opposite to what you have to say. Mine is sharp enough across the frame on film from f4-f8 with fairly high contrast throughout the range.  

It’s the very lens that convinced me that I did not need the 28mm elmarit-m f2.8 asph for my intended use when backpacking and travelling.  It was, and still is, a great little lens that deserves it’s good reputation.

I do agree with some of your comments about the CV 21mm color-skopar which I bought at the same time as the 28mm.

It isn’t as well constructed as the 28mm (alloy vs brass) and has a less pleasant feel in use.  It was not as sharp but has even more contrast but the killer for me was the 21’s greater propensity to flare, which was my main reason for getting rid of it. 

Edited by Ouroboros
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19 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

My experience of the CV28mm f3.5 color-skopar is exactly the opposite to what you have to say. Mine is sharp enough across the frame on film from f4-f8 with fairly high contrast throughout the range.  

It’s the very lens that convinced me that I did not need the 28mm elmarit-m f2.8 asph for my intended use when backpacking and travelling.  It was, and still is, a great little lens that deserves it’s good reputation.

I do agree with some of your comments about the CV 21mm color-skopar which I bought at the same time as the 28mm.

It isn’t as well constructed as the 28mm (alloy vs brass) and has a less pleasant feel in use.  It was not as sharp but has even more contrast but the killer for me was the 21’s greater propensity to flare, which was my main reason for getting rid of it. 

 

32 minutes ago, Steven said:

The only reason why I want a second 28mm is because my Summilux is too big. As far as size, I consider both the Elmarit and the Summaron to both be small enough to fit the job description. Size is the principal motivation. The rest is secondary. 

Ouroborus.......I totally agree with your evaluation of the CV28mm, I have the CV's 21 / 25 / 35 Color Skopars and they are extremely good well made lenses and they all meet my other criteria of being small, compact and do not block the M's finder. I used to own the CV 28mm too but gave it away to a friend with a CV Bessa, I almost now wish I hadn't done that but taking back a gift isn't a good way to go. He's happy with it anyway.

BUT I return to my previous post for Steven, buy the Elmarit it will not disappoint, and later maybe the Summaron for it's even smaller profile and "character", ( whatever the hell that means )......Both live together really well and anyway if you buy either one your 'Lux can live on the SL-S where it'll balance so much better than on a M.

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7 minutes ago, petermullett said:

BUT I return to my previous post for Steven, buy the Elmarit it will not disappoint, and later maybe the Summaron for it's even smaller profile and "character", ( whatever the hell that means )

Or maybe let @Steven choose what he prefers rather than telling him what to do.

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21 minutes ago, petermullett said:

the Summaron for it's even smaller profile and "character", ( whatever the hell that means )

character: The distinguishing nature of something. synonym: quality.

Very similar to:

22 hours ago, petermullett said:

Both lenses have a good signature

signature: used to refer to the special thing for which a person or place is particularly known

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31 minutes ago, petermullett said:

 

Ouroborus.......I totally agree with your evaluation of the CV28mm, I have the CV's 21 / 25 / 35 Color Skopars and they are extremely good well made lenses and they all meet my other criteria of being small, compact and do not block the M's finder. I used to own the CV 28mm too but gave it away to a friend with a CV Bessa, I almost now wish I hadn't done that but taking back a gift isn't a good way to go. He's happy with it anyway.

BUT I return to my previous post for Steven, buy the Elmarit it will not disappoint, and later maybe the Summaron for it's even smaller profile and "character", ( whatever the hell that means )......Both live together really well and anyway if you buy either one your 'Lux can live on the SL-S where it'll balance so much better than on a M.

Peter, given his record of spending money and acquiring gear since he discovered Leica, I doubt that maybe has much relevance on this thread!   :D

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44 minutes ago, ianman said:

character: The distinguishing nature of something. synonym: quality.

Very similar to:

signature: used to refer to the special thing for which a person or place is particularly known

Oh yes, thanks....... I know what the words mean, it's the application of that gets somewhat cloudy as we all give our particular attributes to whatever lenses we like or dislike.

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34 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Peter, given his record of spending money and acquiring gear since he discovered Leica, I doubt that maybe has much relevance on this thread!   :D

No question about it.........Even as I couldn't keep up at that level of spending I am happy that some Leica enthusiasts can so enabling Leica to continue into whatever future time I have left to attend to the various repairs, ( like with my M10-D now on it's fourth trip back to "Mother" ), that my digital M's seem to demand.

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43 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Peter, given his record of spending money and acquiring gear since he discovered Leica, I doubt that maybe has much relevance on this thread!   :D

Neil, the reetern*?

* obligatory typos in hommage to said ex-member.

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1 hour ago, Ouroboros said:

My experience of the CV28mm f3.5 color-skopar is exactly the opposite to what you have to say. Mine is sharp enough across the frame on film from f4-f8 with fairly high contrast throughout the range.  

It’s the very lens that convinced me that I did not need the 28mm elmarit-m f2.8 asph for my intended use when backpacking and travelling.  It was, and still is, a great little lens that deserves it’s good reputation.

I do agree with some of your comments about the CV 21mm color-skopar which I bought at the same time as the 28mm.

It isn’t as well constructed as the 28mm (alloy vs brass) and has a less pleasant feel in use.  It was not as sharp but has even more contrast but the killer for me was the 21’s greater propensity to flare, which was my main reason for getting rid of it. 

My copy of CV 21mm F4 is very sharp (bought new a year ago). The problems with Skopar are limited but somehow important to my style of shooting:

 - veiling flare

 - rendering of green scenery is not "Leica like" vivid

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ouroboros said:

Peter, given his record of spending money and acquiring gear since he discovered Leica, I doubt that maybe has much relevance on this thread!   :D

When I read your message I imagine you being upset, or annoyed about it ? But of course, I could interpret it completely wrong. After all, it's not always easy to hear the right intonation when reading a text from a stranger on the internet. Add to that our differences of mother tongues, our differences of culture, and the personal memory of previous agressivité toward my spendings, and you might understand why sometimes it's hard to properly understand the intentions of the speaker... 

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3 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Like butterflies, they come and go but add a certain amusement value to the forum.

This too, seemed to me like a pretty unkind message to address to a stranger, probably linked to the previous one regarding my spendings. But again, I'll blame this on a difference of culture. Not blaming your culture, just mine, that has a tendency to make me over sensitive, at times... No big deal. 

Edited by Steven
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1 minute ago, Steven said:

This too, seemed to me like a pretty unkind message to address to a stranger, probably linked to the previous one regarding my spendings. But again, I'll blame this on a difference of culture. Not blaming your culture, just mine, that has a tendency to make over sensitive, at times... No big deal. 

yes, very typical on some of the threads here, that's what the ignore button is for :)

so hows the 28 LUX on the SL2s ??

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Just now, frame-it said:

yes, very typical on some of the threads here, that's what the ignore button is for :)

so hows the 28 LUX on the SL2s ??

I know. I get quite frequently attacked by people who get annoyed that I buy a lot of lenses. I don’t see how it’s anyone’s problem what I spend, and where else I should come to talk about it than on a Leica Lens forum. I mean, some people have a passion of cars, they spend more money to buy them and to “CLA” them, and no one gets upset at them for doing what’s making them happy ! 
and yes, I do ignore a lot of people. Usually the idiots. The thing with @Ouroborosis that even though he’s unwelcoming and not very kind to me, he actually has some interesting knowledge to share, so I don’t ignore him. I’ll take what I need and leave what I don’t. 
 

Anyway, the SL2S + 28 Lux is a combo made in heaven. Both ergonomically (build quality, balance, etc…) and with the image it produces. It takes some photos that sometimes I can’t even believe. It’s perfect and modern, yet very gentle and characterful, and velvety (like these new descriptive words Peter ?! 😂 😆 😝). It has a gorgeous rendering wide open, and it marries the sl2s low light capability superbly. 
If I could only keep one body and one lens for the rest of my life, it’s the combo id keep without ever looking back  keep in mind that my favorite focal is 35mm so that says a lot. 

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