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Choosing a compact 28mm lens


Steven

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28mm is one of my favorites as well and I had an near identical dilemma on which 28 to choose to best suit my needs; there are plenty of great examples of the rendering of each of the current Leica 28’s on the forum so I won’t bother to post examples, but in the end I went with a 28 Lux and complimented it with a 28 Summaron (silver).  I discovered that the weight and size of the 28 Summaron is pretty addicting and you’ll find yourself gravitating toward it more often than you think. It’s a really nice counterbalance to a 28 Lux.  I just wish I would have bought a special edition black 28 Summaron when it was available as a Japan only model at Leica Ginza (Ginza 6) a few years ago.

 

Edited by RMF
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I have to say that 28 is my favourite focal length so I kept the lux, the cron and the summaron.

The summaron I am on the fence on whether to keep or not just because I have large hands and it is a small lens. It is great for street though and especially on the M10M where ISO is not an issue

The summicron is not that much bigger than the elmarit (which I also found a little too small) and IMHO quality is superior. It is more expensive though. I don't think it draws similar to the Lux, it has a gentle, while sharp, rendering. For me it has the perfect M lens ergonomics including weight

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1 hour ago, Steven said:

Is there actually any size difference between V1 and V2 without the hoods? Or is it just a hood difference ? 

Not really, Steven; the big difference is the hoods. Without hoods they are both 52mm diameter x 30mm wide and weigh in at 175g.

The hood for v1 is a small plastic thing which (as mentioned) clips on the front. No blockage with hood off and no noticeable blockage (in real-life shooting terms) even with the hood on. For the v2 the hood was redesigned to screw into the front of the lens, is made of metal and a cut-out was provided to ensure no (real) finder blockage but the lenses themselves - size wise - are (afaik) pretty much identical. The v2, though, had very slightly redesigned optics which improved absolute lines-per-millimetre.

As you never use a hood the first point is unimportant and as far as the second goes?.......

As far as the mentions of the Summicron are concerned? I thought you explained matters pretty clearly even just in the first page when you explained;

"...I am not taking into consideration the Summicron, as I'd rather use the Summilux..." (post #1);

"...the Summicron which I discarded in order to protect my Summilux 28..." (post #3);

"...the Cron...(is) too close to the Summilux, and I really prefer the rendering of the Lux..." (post #13);

"...I really prefer the Lux over the Cron. If I get the Cron, I will never use the Lux..." (post #14).

Philip.

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6 minutes ago, pippy said:

Not really, Steven; the big difference is the hoods. Without hoods they are both 52mm diameter x 30mm wide and weigh in at 175g.

The hood for v1 is a small plastic thing which (as mentioned) clips on the front. No blockage with hood off and no noticeable blockage (in real-life shooting terms) even with the hood on. For the v2 the hood was redesigned to screw into the front of the lens, is made of metal and a cut-out was provided to ensure no (real) finder blockage but the lenses themselves - size wise - are (afaik) pretty much identical. The v2, though, had very slightly redesigned optics which improved absolute lines-per-millimetre.

As you never use a hood the first point is unimportant and as far as the second goes?.......

As far as the mentions of the Summicron are concerned? I thought you explained matters pretty clearly even just in the first page when you explained;

"...I am not taking into consideration the Summicron, as I'd rather use the Summilux..." (post #1);

"...the Summicron which I discarded in order to protect my Summilux 28..." (post #3);

"...the Cron...(is) too close to the Summilux, and I really prefer the rendering of the Lux..." (post #13);

"...I really prefer the Lux over the Cron. If I get the Cron, I will never use the Lux..." (post #14).

Philip.

Thank you Philip, you're the best. So precise. My father and my son are called Philip. They're both born on November 23rd. Are you born in November too ? 😇

Yes, I stay away from the cron to protect my Lux, which I adore. But yes, the cron on paper would be my perfect 28 if I kept only one 28. After reading @Fedro's message, one has doubts... ! 

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1 hour ago, Steven said:

Wow, capuccino! You're actually knowledgable and capable or being helpful ? I had no idea. What a pleasant surprise. Thanks mate.

Any experience with the Summilux to throw it and complete this useful comparison ? 

Well my most useful abd helpful comment ever on this forum was, if you ask me, my recomendation to anyone to not always shoot wide open because closing down has a lot of benefits. 
 
As far as lenses go, I lusted over the 28lux many years before it even existed, having owned the 21 and 24 lux. But my summicron 28 was so satisfying (owned two), and the summaron being what it is, and owning the elmarit asph twice only for posterity, I stopped lusting for the 28 lux. 

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I think the summaron is so different from the summilux that its actually the perfect choice as an alternative 28mm.

Both lenses demand  a different mindset and way of operating.

The summaron is still a remarkably sharp lens and very easy to focus accurately  as well as being incredibly small.

 

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Has anyone already mentioned the MATE = Tri-Elmar 4.0 28-50-35mm in this ever longer thread?
Bigger and heavier than the Summicron 2.0-28mm, almost as faint as the Summaron 5.6-28mm, but unbeatably fast when changing from 28 to 35 and 50mm and back.
In addition, the sensor stays clean longer.

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The 28 Elmarit was my first Leica lens ever. It's just outstanding. I traded for a 35 because I don't to enjoy framing and using a 0.72x with a 28mm FL. But, wow.

I remember I was so impressed by the 3D pop of this pic. It's just me, or it's there?

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It was just a snapshot of a family. But look the almost SOOC result. When I see results like this, It's when I think the need of bokeh and shallow DoP is overwhelmed. To be honest, I never appreciated in the past a 3d pop like this with a 28mm at only f/2.8. Until I saw the Elmarit IQ.

  

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9 hours ago, Rennrocky said:

Small and nice and a little bit rare: Voigtländer COLOR-SKOPAR 28mm F3.5 Black Leica L39

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The Color-Skopar is indeed one of the best, and one of the smallest, 28mm lenses you could find. But as you say it is very rare and unusual in that it's made from brass and not aluminium like many other Voigtlander lenses, so the construction is above par, not that Voigtlander do a bad job anyway. It's reviewed on this page

https://cameraquest.com/voigtlen.htm

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11 hours ago, Steven said:

Good Morning, 

I know this focal length has been discussed quite a lot on the forum, and I've read most of the thread from beginning to end but didn't find a firm answer yet. 

For fifteen years, I've only shot on 35mm lenses, as I never liked the 50mm field of view. Recently, I discovered the 28mm focal length and absolutely fell in love with it, thanks to my 28mm Summilux. It has made it my new favourite focal length. I find this lens to be near perfect. I love the way it renders wide open, I love it on my M10R, I love it on film, and I love it on my SL2-S, both for stills and video. Its only downside is the size and weight. Somedays I don't feel like, or just can't go out with a lens of that size with me. I need to be lighter, or simply more discreet. 

I am now looking for a second, more compact length, for daily carry. I am not taking into consideration the Summicron, as I'd rather use the Summilux. My decision will probably be between the Elmarit and the Summaron. 

Advantages of the Summaron: 

- it looks great on the camera

- everyone says its fun to use

- I love the vintage rendering I see from the photos on the forum, as I'm more into vintage lenses than modern ones like the elmarit in general. 

- it's tiny tiny tiny 

Advantages of the Elmarit: 

- It's not much bigger than the Summaron 

- It's usable at night, especially on the SL2-S

- I'm a sucker for DOF.

- It's said to be one of the most versatile lens, as it can do everything. 

Any opinions, or experience to share from some of you who have used one, or both of this lens ? 

At this point, I am leaning towards the other extreme from the Summilux: the summaron. Extreme opposite in size, weight, look, and probably rendering too. 

But the idea of more stops of light on the very capable elmarit tempts me too. 

Thanks for you guidance. 

In your situation, the summaron is the obvious choice for all the positive reasons that have been given and as you already have the Summilux, I don’t understand why you need to ask advice on here.  

28mm or équivalent is my most used focal length across three different film formats and I use the summaron far more than I use my summicron. Leica M photography for me is purely about using film with my MP and I prefer using smaller lenses, the 28mm summaron and the 50 elmar-m f2.8 are my choice for most of my Leica photography.  If I feel like a change, I’ll take the 28mm summicron and 90mm elmarit-m.  

Don’t let anyone put you off the summaron because of the f5.6 maximum aperture.  Your cameras high iso performance make that a moot point,   What you will gain with the summaron is it’s miniscule size and recognisable signature in every image you make with it.  

You’ll also be liberated from the stultifying compulsive disease of shooting everything at f1.4 as a bonus.

Stop fannying around with needless threads on here and get the summaron.

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1 hour ago, 250swb said:

The Color-Skopar is indeed one of the best, and one of the smallest, 28mm lenses you could find. But as you say it is very rare...

Rare indeed! I've really fancied having one of those for my 1930 Leica 1 ever since I read this review. It truly is a beautiful lens in every way. Nor do I doubt for one second it wouldn't be every bit as good with a digi-M;

https://www.35mmc.com/26/11/2017/voigtlander-28mm-f-3-5-color-skopar-review/

Philip.

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Steven, If would have a 28mm Summaron, I would put and keep it permanently at f/8 ... forever. One setting less. IMHO, it's what makes sense for me to buy a lens like this. Not just for the design or the size. I would say, it's an high-end pancake great IQ snapshot lens 🤔  So it makes more sense to pair it with the the summilux you already have.

But also, when you don't want to carry an heavy and large lens like the 28Lux, you can have a super balance lens (commitment) like the Elmarit. As always, the main question: what for?

The better lens? The Elmarit. The lens that makes more sense to me (adding to the fast 28 Lux) it's the Summaron.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Dennis said:

...The better lens? The Elmarit. The lens that makes more sense to me (adding to the fast 28 Lux) it's the Summaron...

Whilst I completely understand where you are coming from here, Dennis, to me the Summaron only works if it's paired with the Summilux but if Steven wants to head out and only use one 'catch-all' 28mm without a faster lens fulfilling any backup role then the Elmarit is (IMO) the favourite and by a long chalk.

Philip.

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I also have the Summilux/Summaron pairing.

The 28 Summilux is, as you've found, a fabulous lens - wide open, stopped down.  It's fantastic (a worthless and uninformative statement of opinion, I concede).  Now that you have and appreciate this lens, what are you looking for in another 28?  The Summicron is too close for you, apparently.  Is it just size?  Coming from large systems, there isn't really an M lens I consider too big, or heavy, provided it has some point ...

What the Summaron will give you is beautiful build quality, diminutive size and a rendering very different from the Summilux.  That, I would have thought, is enough.  I use mine on my Monochrom and on my TL2 - almost pocketable, and offering 28/42mm fields of view.  I even like the retro hood ...

A challenge for you (a good one at that) is you will need to think about your photographs in other than shallow depth of field terms.  Are you ready for that?  I like images where the entire subject is in clear focus - that means understanding aperture as more than something you wind around clockwise until you're at f/1.4.

With the Summaron, even at a metre, the depth of field is over 400mm wide open.  At f/8, the lens is hyperfocal at 3.5 metres ...

Edited by IkarusJohn
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23 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The summicron beats the elmarit any day. Let’s face it, the elmarit is a budget lens next to the summicron. Even in the imaging department, it harsh.

 

I respectfully disagree.  Build quality is great.  It's compact.  Rendering is a nice blend of classic and modern.  See below:

Flowers in the Utah desert... M10r, elmarit 28m

 

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1 hour ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The summicron beats the elmarit any day. Let’s face it, the elmarit is a budget lens next to the summicron. Even in the imaging department, it harsh.

 

I currently own the 28mm Elmarit and owned the 28mm Summicron in days gone by.  Based on my experience with both, I have to disagree. 

The 28 Elmarit is different from the 28 Summicron.  Different does not mean worse; it just means different, that's all. 

I have found the 28 Elmarit to be every bit the equal of the 28 Summicron in terms of build quality, durability, reliability and optical excellence.  It is one f/stop slower and as such, it costs $2300 USD less money.  By comparison, the 28 Summicron costs $2500 USD less than the 28 Summilux.  In the 28mm niche of Leica M lenses, $2300-2500 is the cost of the jump from f/2.8 to f/2.0 or from f/2.0 to f/1.4.

"Harsh" is subjective and is matter of opinion.  To my eye, the 28mm Elmarit is contrasty, sharp and produces outstanding image quality -  which I have always heard is why we buy Leica M lenses in the first place.

Edited by Herr Barnack
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3 hours ago, pippy said:

Rare indeed! I've really fancied having one of those for my 1930 Leica 1 ever since I read this review. It truly is a beautiful lens in every way. Nor do I doubt for one second it wouldn't be every bit as good with a digi-M;

https://www.35mmc.com/26/11/2017/voigtlander-28mm-f-3-5-color-skopar-review/

Philip.

I do get good results from this setup, on film.

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