Choosing a compact 28mm lens

[Guest]

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I'm still laughing at the recommendation of the optically and technically best Safari Summicron 28mm asph, as the addressed user would have to dismantle its built-in lens hood in order to put it unused on the shelf to all the others.😀
Opening a thread of conversation is one thing, but extending it to a never-ending tapeworm with increasingly strange arguments borders on the absurd.😎

[Steven]

6 hours ago, dkmoore said:

What modern 35 are you going to use as daily driver?

the 28 is very close to the 35 Cron. 

I'm using the 35AA. Or the 35 pre FLE (almost identical in size). But that lens is too big for me, to the point that I dont use it everyday anymore. Just when I'm going out for the purpose of taking photos. 

If I'm just strolling around, I've been spoiled by the size of the Summilux 35 pre asph. Therefore, I want a 28 equivalent... the elmarit seems to be it. 

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

There have been several posts in this thread that stated the Elmarit 28 is overly contrasty to the point of being harsh.  I'm curious, of those who have said that, how many are using the Elmarit on a film camera?   I shoot film exclusively and so have only used my Elmarit 28 on film Leicas.  While I do agree that the lens is contrasty, I don't feel it crosses into 'harsh' territory.  So I'm wondering if this notion that the Elmarit is too harsh is related to pairing it with digital sensors.

I really do need to beg, borrow or steal a Summicron to see why many posters in this thread seem to prefer it.

Joe Greer shoots almost only that lens of film and his photos look amazing. 

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[Steven]

27 minutes ago, mnutzer said:

I'm still laughing at the recommendation of the optically and technically best Safari Summicron 28mm asph, as the addressed user would have to dismantle its built-in lens hood in order to put it unused on the shelf to all the others.😀
Opening a thread of conversation is one thing, but extending it to a never-ending tapeworm with increasingly strange arguments borders on the absurd.😎

Not sure I understand ? Now I'm an absurd person because I leave my hood on the shelf ? The shelf was an exaggeration. I leave them in an abandoned drawer in the corner of the house. I don't even want them in my sight. Never used hoods. They they add too much bulk and dont serve me with my photography style. Why is that absurd, or how is that a problem to the point that I am being judged on ? 

About the Safari version, I would have probably liked it, just like I like the hood of my 50Lux E46 pre asph (because I dont see it and it's not in my way). But I dont like green lenses. 

As for the thread, I opened it to get help (and share the journey for others in the same situation) finding my perfect companion to the 28 lux. Once I have found it, I'll consider this thread solved. Not yet. 

[Ouroboros]

28 minutes ago, mnutzer said:

I'm still laughing at the recommendation of the optically and technically best Safari Summicron 28mm asph, as the addressed user would have to dismantle its built-in lens hood in order to put it unused on the shelf to all the others.😀
Opening a thread of conversation is one thing, but extending it to a never-ending tapeworm with increasingly strange arguments borders on the absurd.😎

I agree.  Sometimes the best option is the comedy value.

Neil is at severe risk of being outneil-ed

[AndreasG]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Steven:

I've been spoiled by the size of the Summilux 35 pre asph. Therefore, I want a 28 equivalent... the elmarit seems to be it. 

A wise decision, both lenses are extremely small compared with further Leica lenses and powerful, even the old Summilux. Actually, the 28 Elmarit (ASPH version I) is presently my favourite lens, and the 35 Lux pre ASPH I prefer for low light conditions. Should mention that the Lux is uncoded, the thick flange is an obstacle for easy coding.

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Edited July 1, 2021 by AndreasG

[John Robinson]

This is a fascinating thread but is it really about 28mm lenses, or about how you make choices?

In the "good 'ol days" -- 1970s/80s in my case -- you bought the best camera and lens(es) you could afford and the choices were all about film.  Which stock?  How to process?  What sort of darkroom process?  Nowadays film is still a viable option but the range of choices is rather depleted.

In the digital age, the choice of camera -- unless you can afford lots of them -- replaces the choice of film stock and choice of lens becomes much more pressing, as it is so much easier to take test shots at all apertures, distances etc and evaluate.  What I found through this sort of process is that there are particular combinations of camera and lens that produce results I like, and many that don't. 

If photography is a craft then the choice of camera/lens/film is about getting the tools of trade that enable you to produce consistent results that you like.  Then you can look at results not equipment.  People who say "the camera does not matter" are being a little bit simplistic in my view.  Would a painter be happy with just any old brush, paint-pot, medium?

The original question was:  I have a 28/1.4 I really like that gives me good results (possibly on more than one camera) but sometimes I want something much smaller that still gives good results at 28mm.

How to choose?  Cue a deluge of "advice" about all the different 28s in various sizes, not all Leica.

Speaking personally, the only way to find out what works for you is get different lenses and try them out.

I'm not a great fan of 28mm, preferring 50mm for the most part (have far too many of them in the cupboard) but I did try a few and it is interesting to look back.

Elmarit-M 28 ASPH V1 on an M8, excellent results but hated it on the M9, changed to Summicron-M 28 ASPH V1 (not really much bigger) and very happy.

(Recently shot some ISO 400 film with the Summicron:  good results.)

Summicron-M 28 ASPH V1 on the SL (601):  competent, particularly for shooting video in crop mode, but ...

... after looking at comments from cinematographers about lenses, tried a Carl Zeiss Distagon 28/2.8 (Contax mount) on the SL.  Blows the Summicron away at about 1/10th the price.  (Apparently the Distagon 28/2 is even better, making it very hard to find.  Also tried a Nikkor 28/2.8 but dumped it almost immediately as it's nowhere near the Distagon.)

My conclusion:  get lenses, try them, see what works for you, don't feel guilty about dumping the ones that you don't like.  But ...

... if you have a lens you like (e.g. the original 28/1.4) then get another lens that you like (e.g. Summicron or Elmarit or Summaron or Zeiss etc) don't feel that you have abandoned your first choice and have to dump it.  What you have done is widen your range of choices, much as a painter has a collection of brushes or a musician a collection of instruments.  Each one gives you a different look.  Enjoy the choice.

[Guest]

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4 hours ago, John Robinson said:

This is a fascinating thread but is it really about 28mm lenses, or about how you make choices?

In the "good 'ol days" -- 1970s/80s in my case -- you bought the best camera and lens(es) you could afford and the choices were all about film.  Which stock?  How to process?  What sort of darkroom process?  Nowadays film is still a viable option but the range of choices is rather depleted.

In the digital age, the choice of camera -- unless you can afford lots of them -- replaces the choice of film stock and choice of lens becomes much more pressing, as it is so much easier to take test shots at all apertures, distances etc and evaluate.  What I found through this sort of process is that there are particular combinations of camera and lens that produce results I like, and many that don't. 

If photography is a craft then the choice of camera/lens/film is about getting the tools of trade that enable you to produce consistent results that you like.  Then you can look at results not equipment.  People who say "the camera does not matter" are being a little bit simplistic in my view.  Would a painter be happy with just any old brush, paint-pot, medium?

The original question was:  I have a 28/1.4 I really like that gives me good results (possibly on more than one camera) but sometimes I want something much smaller that still gives good results at 28mm.

How to choose?  Cue a deluge of "advice" about all the different 28s in various sizes, not all Leica.

Speaking personally, the only way to find out what works for you is get different lenses and try them out.

I'm not a great fan of 28mm, preferring 50mm for the most part (have far too many of them in the cupboard) but I did try a few and it is interesting to look back.

Elmarit-M 28 ASPH V1 on an M8, excellent results but hated it on the M9, changed to Summicron-M 28 ASPH V1 (not really much bigger) and very happy.

(Recently shot some ISO 400 film with the Summicron:  good results.)

Summicron-M 28 ASPH V1 on the SL (601):  competent, particularly for shooting video in crop mode, but ...

... after looking at comments from cinematographers about lenses, tried a Carl Zeiss Distagon 28/2.8 (Contax mount) on the SL.  Blows the Summicron away at about 1/10th the price.  (Apparently the Distagon 28/2 is even better, making it very hard to find.  Also tried a Nikkor 28/2.8 but dumped it almost immediately as it's nowhere near the Distagon.)

My conclusion:  get lenses, try them, see what works for you, don't feel guilty about dumping the ones that you don't like.  But ...

... if you have a lens you like (e.g. the original 28/1.4) then get another lens that you like (e.g. Summicron or Elmarit or Summaron or Zeiss etc) don't feel that you have abandoned your first choice and have to dump it.  What you have done is widen your range of choices, much as a painter has a collection of brushes or a musician a collection of instruments.  Each one gives you a different look.  Enjoy the choice.

The try lenses and dump them is only an option if your wealthy though surely?

[FrozenInTime]

3 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

The try lenses and dump them is only an option if your wealthy though surely?

Or pace your lens purchases, evaluations and sales over a reasonable time period of several years.

[John Robinson]

9 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

The try lenses and dump them is only an option if your wealthy though surely?

By "dump" I meant sell on, another easy option in the on-line age not possible in the days of small ads in the paper.  With care you can avoid too much loss.  With Leica lenses, prices only seem to go up.

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, John Robinson said:

By "dump" I meant sell on, another easy option in the on-line age not possible in the days of small ads in the paper.  With care you can avoid too much loss.  With Leica lenses, prices only seem to go up.

Renting is another option:

https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/brands/leica

[Capuccino-Muffin]

On 6/30/2021 at 8:47 PM, dkmoore said:

I actually found the Cron sharper across the entire image. This may come down to sample variation but again I’ve owned multiple copies of the Cron 2 and Elmarit 2. Maybe the high contrast of the elmarit made it appear sharper or I just had better copies of the V2 Cron compared to my elmarit. 
 

MTFs are out there and maybe I’m wrong. 

Summicron is indeed sharper, and much more well behaved. It shouldn’t be a surprise, the elmarit is an economical version of the superior summicron.

[John Robinson]

For something a bit different, how about a Zeiss Distagon on an M?  These lenses turn up for half the price or less than the current-model Biogons in M-mount.  Add an adapter and you are away.  Zone focus or EVF on any of the later-model Ms.  The image below gives an idea of what the lens can do although I cheated and put it on an SL but a 240 or later would give much the same result.  Obviously not "compact" but I rate the quality of this lens as comparable with the Carl Zeiss Distagon 4/50 in Hasselblad V-mount.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited July 2, 2021 by John Robinson

[Steven]

23 hours ago, John Robinson said:

This is a fascinating thread but is it really about 28mm lenses, or about how you make choices?

In the "good 'ol days" -- 1970s/80s in my case -- you bought the best camera and lens(es) you could afford and the choices were all about film.  Which stock?  How to process?  What sort of darkroom process?  Nowadays film is still a viable option but the range of choices is rather depleted.

In the digital age, the choice of camera -- unless you can afford lots of them -- replaces the choice of film stock and choice of lens becomes much more pressing, as it is so much easier to take test shots at all apertures, distances etc and evaluate.  What I found through this sort of process is that there are particular combinations of camera and lens that produce results I like, and many that don't. 

If photography is a craft then the choice of camera/lens/film is about getting the tools of trade that enable you to produce consistent results that you like.  Then you can look at results not equipment.  People who say "the camera does not matter" are being a little bit simplistic in my view.  Would a painter be happy with just any old brush, paint-pot, medium?

The original question was:  I have a 28/1.4 I really like that gives me good results (possibly on more than one camera) but sometimes I want something much smaller that still gives good results at 28mm.

How to choose?  Cue a deluge of "advice" about all the different 28s in various sizes, not all Leica.

Speaking personally, the only way to find out what works for you is get different lenses and try them out.

I'm not a great fan of 28mm, preferring 50mm for the most part (have far too many of them in the cupboard) but I did try a few and it is interesting to look back.

Elmarit-M 28 ASPH V1 on an M8, excellent results but hated it on the M9, changed to Summicron-M 28 ASPH V1 (not really much bigger) and very happy.

(Recently shot some ISO 400 film with the Summicron:  good results.)

Summicron-M 28 ASPH V1 on the SL (601):  competent, particularly for shooting video in crop mode, but ...

... after looking at comments from cinematographers about lenses, tried a Carl Zeiss Distagon 28/2.8 (Contax mount) on the SL.  Blows the Summicron away at about 1/10th the price.  (Apparently the Distagon 28/2 is even better, making it very hard to find.  Also tried a Nikkor 28/2.8 but dumped it almost immediately as it's nowhere near the Distagon.)

My conclusion:  get lenses, try them, see what works for you, don't feel guilty about dumping the ones that you don't like.  But ...

... if you have a lens you like (e.g. the original 28/1.4) then get another lens that you like (e.g. Summicron or Elmarit or Summaron or Zeiss etc) don't feel that you have abandoned your first choice and have to dump it.  What you have done is widen your range of choices, much as a painter has a collection of brushes or a musician a collection of instruments.  Each one gives you a different look.  Enjoy the choice.

I agree with every word you say. Thank you for this great post. 

I followed you advised and picked up a 28 cron from Leica. I have it for a day to try. So far, the Summicron made me like my Summilux even more, but it also gave me appreciation for the Summaron, although not enough to keep it. 

Picking up an elmarit in an hour...  

[a.noctilux]

11 minutes ago, Steven said:

I agree with every word you say. Thank you for this great post. 

I followed you advised and picked up a 28 cron from Leica. I have it for a day to try. So far, the Summicron made me like my Summilux even more, but it also gave me appreciation for the Summaron, although not enough to keep it. 

Picking up an elmarit in an hour...  

😉Happy ending ...or beginning ...

[AndreasG]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb a.noctilux:

😉Happy ending ...or beginning ...

Fortunately, the joy of photographing and about the relevant equipment is a never ending story!

[AndreasG]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb John Robinson:

Obviously not "compact"......

That is indeed the weak point of the Zeiss lenses for the Leica M, the tend to be bulky. Nevertheless, their optical quality is superb - I frequently use a 18mm Distagon and 25mm Biogon. They are excellent value for money!

[Casey Jefferson]

16 hours ago, Steven said:

I agree with every word you say. Thank you for this great post. 

I followed you advised and picked up a 28 cron from Leica. I have it for a day to try. So far, the Summicron made me like my Summilux even more, but it also gave me appreciation for the Summaron, although not enough to keep it. 

Picking up an elmarit in an hour...  

Totally understand how you feel, that happened to me in my violin shopping throughout the years as a violinist. All of the purchases taught me something important, mostly end up making me appreciate certain quality that many others couldn't pick up. Not quite the same thing for a good analogy, but the principle is the same - to satisfy one as a curiosity beings 🤣

[250swb]

On 7/1/2021 at 7:39 AM, ianman said:

Just a bit  This frenzy has turned  the thread into one of the funniest on the forum.

Amazingly it appears the premise of this thread, and probably it's ultimate conclusion, is also mimicked in nature by one of the worlds most spectacular birds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oozlum_bird

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by 250swb

[ianman]

2 hours ago, 250swb said:

Amazingly it appears the premise of this thread, and probably it's ultimate conclusion, is also mimicked in nature by one of the worlds most spectacular birds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oozlum_bird

 

😂  A perfect description!

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[Guest Nowhereman]

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

Amazingly it appears the premise of this thread, and probably it's ultimate conclusion, is also mimicked in nature by one of the worlds most spectacular birds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oozlum_bird

10 hours ago, ianman said:

😂  A perfect description!

more fool you
or are you taking the piss
it my be hit or miss
but if you really want to know
where the fool                
(in your mind)
gets his dough—
why do you wanna know?
just give a little thought
to what he has bought
and no need to crow
cuz the wherewithal
is not a coverall
but merely the easily gotten gains
of a movie producer,
a cineaste, from the remains,
vast,
of his profession
that doesn’t require
a confession
to the likes of y’all
but this kinda troll
is just a jealousy trip
and we won’t let it rip
but stop it right here
you hear?
the normal Leica forum MO
is just too beau
the questioning of motive,
so corrosive,
always assuming the worst
reason,
whatever season,
of any statement
never any abatement
but let it be
we’re not paying any fee.
for jealousy is even uglier
and even vulgar.
just a matter of time
to each his own
to waste
just brace
yourself
and the pace
of this rap
will show the crap
that we face
let’s listen to the song of
Georges Brassens
a lot of sense
about being older
but not wiser
that brings us back
and makes us bolder:

Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire.
Quand on est con, on est con!
Qu'on ait 20 ans, qu'on soit grand-père
Quand on est con, on est con!
Entre vous plus de controverses,
Cons caduques ou cons débutants.
Petits cons de la dernière averse
Vieux cons des neiges d'antan
Petits cons de la dernière averse
Vieux cons des neiges d'antan

so more fool you
now you know it too
we’re tired of this nonsense
that cannot masquerade
as the superior wisdom
of your own charade
we’ll put paid to any of your
elation,
mate, take a vacation
from this mental masturbation
 

@Steven - sorry you're being subjected this...
________________________
Frog Leaping photobook