SL2-S

[Simone_DF]

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3 hours ago, tom.w.bn said:

Many people rant about the AF. Still no proof that this a real life problem, except for vloggers.

I did post some real life proof of Leica’s subpar AF performances, but according to some people on this forum it was a “user error”, even when a Leica rep candidly admitted that the AF sucks in low contrast scenarios. 
If Leica want the L alliance to succeed, they need phase detect, there’s no way around it. Leica can still sell cameras based on brand loyalty, but I doubt it will be the same for the other two members. 

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[Brian Puccio]

According to this site:

Eine anonyme Quelle hat uns verraten, dass die Leica SL2-S wohl mit 24 Megapixeln auflösen und mit erstklassigen Video-Funktionen überzeugen wird. Sollte dieser Fall wirklich eintreten, wäre das ein interessanter Schachzug von Leica. Schließlich standen die Videofunktionen bei der Kameraschmiede aus Wetzlar bisher nicht unbedingt im Fokus. Doch wir haben in den letzten Monaten in der Branche ja allgemein beobachten können, dass die Videofunktionen eine immer wichtigere Rolle einnehmen. Gut möglich also, dass auch Leica da eine entsprechende Kamera im Angebot haben möchte. Die Leica SL2-S soll sich angeblich im Preisbereich von knapp 5.000 Euro einordnen.

Which Google translates as:

An anonymous source has told us that the Leica SL2-S will probably have a resolution of 24 megapixels and convince with first-class video functions. Should this really happen, it would be an interesting move by Leica. After all, the video functions at the camera manufacturer from Wetzlar have not necessarily been in focus so far. However, in the last few months we have generally observed in the industry that video functions are playing an increasingly important role. So it is quite possible that Leica would also like to have a corresponding camera on offer. The Leica SL2-S is said to be in the price range of just under 5,000 euros.

[Chaemono]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Rick in CO:

...

My guess is the SL2S would have the 47 Mp sensor with the original SL finder, no IBIS and maybe no video - hence "simplified".

It’ll sell like hotcakes.

[peka69]

S - Sport

or

S- Street

So lighter (smaller) and/ or  faster body

???

[Gavin Cato]

8 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

There CAN be IQ loss, but it happens only in extreme conditions, and even in that case, it’s rare. I’ve been using Sony cameras since the A7RII and I’ve never encountered this issue. 

I can trigger it pretty regularly in backlit conditions with A7r2/A74/A9.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love the sl2 to focus like a a9. But the iq thing is real.

 

[Simone_DF]

I'm pretty sure you can trigger it, but I guess that for the 95% of people that buy into a system it's not a problem and they prefer a working eye-af and af-c. Canon and Sony together have 80% of the market share, Panasonic has something like 5%, and that includes their micro 4/3 line.

The new AF in the S5 is a step in the right direction, I'm considering getting one myself, but there's only that much that you can do with DFD. 

 

[nicci78]

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14 hours ago, Brian Puccio said:

According to this site:

Eine anonyme Quelle hat uns verraten, dass die Leica SL2-S wohl mit 24 Megapixeln auflösen und mit erstklassigen Video-Funktionen überzeugen wird. Sollte dieser Fall wirklich eintreten, wäre das ein interessanter Schachzug von Leica. Schließlich standen die Videofunktionen bei der Kameraschmiede aus Wetzlar bisher nicht unbedingt im Fokus. Doch wir haben in den letzten Monaten in der Branche ja allgemein beobachten können, dass die Videofunktionen eine immer wichtigere Rolle einnehmen. Gut möglich also, dass auch Leica da eine entsprechende Kamera im Angebot haben möchte. Die Leica SL2-S soll sich angeblich im Preisbereich von knapp 5.000 Euro einordnen.

Which Google translates as:

An anonymous source has told us that the Leica SL2-S will probably have a resolution of 24 megapixels and convince with first-class video functions. Should this really happen, it would be an interesting move by Leica. After all, the video functions at the camera manufacturer from Wetzlar have not necessarily been in focus so far. However, in the last few months we have generally observed in the industry that video functions are playing an increasingly important role. So it is quite possible that Leica would also like to have a corresponding camera on offer. The Leica SL2-S is said to be in the price range of just under 5,000 euros.

Thanks for sharing. It is obvious that SL2-S will just be SL2 with 24MP at 1000€ less. The equivalent of what S1 is to S1R. A cheaper, less defined but better suited for video, camera. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

I haven't seen any pictures on Nokeshita yet, so to me this is all speculation.  But I would be happy to go for a 24 MPx SL2-lite with the same controls as the SL2, with improved video in-camera codecs and no 29:59 timeout, and IBIS.  The only question is -- would I get enough tradein $$ for my two SL1's to pay for it?

[tom.w.bn]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Simone_DF:

I'm pretty sure you can trigger it, but I guess that for the 95% of people that buy into a system it's not a problem and they prefer a working eye-af and af-c. Canon and Sony together have 80% of the market share, Panasonic has something like 5%, and that includes their micro 4/3 line.

The new AF in the S5 is a step in the right direction, I'm considering getting one myself, but there's only that much that you can do with DFD. 

 

Yes. And for 95% the current AF is not a problem. Now what?

[Simone_DF]

14 minutes ago, tom.w.bn said:

Yes. And for 95% the current AF is not a problem. Now what?

It is a problem, because sales of the L mount are miserable, and while Leica can and will still sell and make a profit because of brand name, Panasonic can't do the same and may abandon the full frame market if there's no economic return for them.

[tom.w.bn]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Steven:

It’s not a problem for stills shooter. 
it’s a huge problem for video shooters. At this price point, mirror less buyers look for hybrid options. Look at the R5 debacle because of the overheating. People want great photo and great video in the same body. Won’t be on the M. Wont be on the Q. Won’t be on the S. It’s gotta be on the SL. 

Huge problem? Where? I spent hours on youtube and only found vloggers who have vlogging problems. Where are all the descriptions of real life problems in video?

[Simone_DF]

57 minutes ago, tom.w.bn said:

Huge problem? Where? I spent hours on youtube and only found vloggers who have vlogging problems. Where are all the descriptions of real life problems in video?

The AF is subpar. Shall I post again all my examples of missed af with a SL2? Or do you prefer the written confirmation of a Leica rep? Because I have that too. 

[nicci78]

We should not drink to much Panasonic Kool-aid here. 

What we know ? DSLRs have awesome AF with excellent tracking. What do they use ? Phase detect. 

But one chief engineered at Panasonic has said years ago, that they can make contrast detect faster and more precised than phase detect. So now this very same engineer is dragging Panasonic to extinction, just for pride. Yes we can do it. But in 2020, S5’s AF seems OK, but still behind Canon and Sony phase detect AF

Everybody : Canon, Nikon, Sony, Ricoh/Pentax, Fujifilm, Olympus are using hybrid AF phase+contrast detect. And it is awesome. But Panasonic, Leica and Sigma just have to rely on fancy contrast detect : the infamous DFD. L-mount should just admit defeat and join the on sensor phase detect camp right now, before it is too late. 

Panasonic has enjoyed a close to 0% market share in full frame mirrorless in Japan since february 2019 to august 2020. September showed a surge to a mere 5% thanks to S5. Panasonic really has to change strategy in order to keep selling cameras in the future. I am really concern that if Panasonic close its imaging division, it will drive Leica out of the road with him. 

[ynp]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Panasonic has enjoyed a close to 0% market share in full frame mirrorless in Japan since february 2019 to august 2020. September showed a surge to a mere 5% thanks to S5. Panasonic really has to change strategy in order to keep selling cameras in the future. I am really concern that if Panasonic close its imaging division, it will drive Leica out of the road with him. 

I think that the Panasonic full frame cameras are not long enough present  on the marketplace to get a substantial market share. They lack the lenses and the Leica lenses are too expensive for a lot of potential customers. The majority of Nikon , Canon and Sony customers already have their lenses and can adapt their legacy glass with the adapters.  Panasonic is obviously planing a long term game and they will be bringing new products  in the future. I think that they are calculating  the risks and will not exit the market soon, even the noisy paid influencers on social media tell you otherwise. Too much of marketing on YouTube for my liking. . 

I agree that the AFc on the Panasonic and SL2 is not the best in the world. That’s why I still have a Sony with the 35mm and 85 mm. lenses. But for my work I do not NEED the eye focus on every shoot. The Sony is easy, even too easy for the portrait and nude work. I shoot looser and faster with my Sony and it limits me, I want to slow down when I shoot for myself. When I am asked to shoot people, I tend to pick up the Sony. For personal stuff I have different cameras. The M10r is the favorite camera of mine now. 
 

yevgeny

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[BernardC]

As they say: the grass is always greener on the other side.

Sony should worry. Their sales are dropping rapidly, and they haven't innovated in quite a while. Sure, they now have an entry-level a6000-style body, but that's a low-margin product for consumers looking to replace their old a6000 (their APS lenses won't work, so it's a tough sell). Also, they have a history of dropping non-performing consumer products. Sure, they are "fast," but their flagship low-volume a9 isn't as fast as a 1Dx, and too expensive to sell to people who can't afford a 1Dx.

They used to have a megapixel advantage, but those customers have moved-on to medium-format mirrorless. What's left for them? They can try to get advantageous shelf space at Best Buy and Walmart, but I'm not convinced they will beat Canon at that game.

 

[Simone_DF]

16 hours ago, ynp said:

I think that the Panasonic full frame cameras are not long enough present  on the marketplace to get a substantial market share. They lack the lenses and the Leica lenses are too expensive for a lot of potential customers. The majority of Nikon , Canon and Sony customers already have their lenses and can adapt their legacy glass with the adapters. 

I disagree. The L alliance started with a very good selection of lenses from 3 manufacturers. Let’s remove Leica for a second for the reasons stated above, you still have Sigma and its wide range of lenses, and Panasonic within a small timeframe released all standard zoom workhorses and more. The only lenses that are missing are the small primes, for the rest you were covered from day one by Sigma. 
Nikon and Canon users could adapt their DSLR glass, but especially for Nikon the initial native lens lineup was miserable 

[nicci78]

Don’t forget that every Sigma DG HSM and DG DN lenses are also available for Sony FE mount. So not an advantage at all...

Sigma DC DN are also available to Sony E mount and Canon EOS-M mount. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[ynp]

24 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I disagree. The L alliance started with a very good selection of lenses from 3 manufacturers. Let’s remove Leica for a second for the reasons stated above, you still have Sigma and its wide range of lenses, and Panasonic within a small timeframe released all standard zoom workhorses and more. The only lenses that are missing are the small primes, for the rest you were covered from day one by Sigma. 
Nikon and Canon users could adapt their DSLR glass, but especially for Nikon the initial native lens lineup was miserable 

Maybe you are right. It’s still a big outlay to change a system and get a totally new system like the Panasonic is. For many the cost is prohibitive. I share my studio with a pro and she is struggling with the upgrade into the mirrorless, the Canon in her case. The adapter helps her to use her legacy DSLR lenses. 

[lx1713]

: )

SL2s for Sinar, I hope it will be a technical camera with front and rear standards. Doubtful as it will be an engineering challenge except with S or PL lenses. Not enough flange space to do this.

or

SL2s for video capabilities, click less dials for aperture change and focusing via the dials. Hopefully ProRes RAW, global shutter and built in ND filter.

or

SL2s - simple. Just a sensor box to built out configurations. And possibly wireless remote controls like touch interfaces, etc via bluetooth and wifi. A FOTOS driven multi cam operation.

Something a professional might consider building on a single foundation for the long term.