Hoping that CL2 = mini SL2

[cirke]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

it would make more sense to remove the meaningless AWB pictogram.

it would make more sense FOR YOU

I have nothing with removing AWB  if I dont use it , it should be an option

I dont see what is the problem with having a full customisable menu and buttons 

Edited January 19, 2021 by cirke

[jaapv]

Nor I, but you started out with calling for "no Video" 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[cirke]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

Nor I, but you started out with calling for "no Video" 

and I keep calling for no video do you have a problem with that ? 

have you forgotten the reactions against the Motion button on the M240 ?
I'm far from being the only one who doesn't want to see video on my camera

[Gregm61]

Start asking for stuff not being there, some day they just might get rid of something you do want.

Just use the freakin’ thing the way you want and ignore the extra fluff, knowing it wasn’t made just for you.

[jaapv]

 

10 minutes ago, cirke said:

and I keep calling for no video do you have a problem with that ? 

have you forgotten the reactions against the Motion button on the M240 ?
I'm far from being the only one who doesn't want to see video on my camera

Yes I do have a problem with that as you are imposing your own personal wishes on other users. If you want a camera without video just buy a camera without video. And yes I still blame Leica for giving in to unreasonable demands in the M series - although to be fair, the main reason for removal was technical.

[matted]

I got excited when I saw a few extra pages on this thread as I assumed there was perhaps some more news regarding the CL2. Colour me disappointed...

Regarding video, I think there are a lot more people that wouldn’t buy the CL2 if it didn’t have video, than there are people not buying it because it has video. It would be retail suicide for Leica to remove it. 
 

I think having the video “mode” in the top menu is a great happy medium as it makes it extremely unlikely that one would accidentally record video, and makes it extremely easy for the camera to behave like a 100% stills camera. 
 

I understand people getting their back up about dedicated video buttons (Leica wasn’t the only company that moved away from them to photo/video modes... Fuji did as well), but to get indignant about a fully ignorable graphic in a menu? Please...

[Simone_DF]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Me reading the latest developments of this thread:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Mr.Prime]

Just take a look at what is coming out of Sony and Fuji and others - this is what Leica has to compete with when it comes to the mirror less small body camera. The R&D budget of Sony is several $bn, spread over all their activities but however it is allocated it is significant. It is obviously so much larger than that of Leica you know that Leica has to pick their battles very carefully indeed when it comes to choosing what they are going to develop and what kinds of technologies they can offer, or have to license from others (and hence pay a premium for) etc. So asking for lots of features and capabilities from your Leica camera is unrealistic.

 

As a small company Leica originally rode on the coat tails of film companies who had v large R&D budgets, allowing Leica to focus on optics. Today, it is electronics behemoths that they ride on, such as Sony sensors and Panasonic electronics. Has Leica found it’s niche?

Edited January 19, 2021 by Mr.Prime

[DirkS]

They would find it if the TL-lenses would be the best APS-C lenses of the world......

Edited January 19, 2021 by DirkS

[Mr.Prime]

Lenses these days can be made more or less perfect. Unlike the hey day of Leica when computers were limited and glass types and quality more limiting - it’s now a far more mature technology where performance is limited only by how much you are willing to pay. And you may not have to pay as much as you think for plain old mechanical lenses - Look at the Chinese lenses coming out of small and recently established companies; whilst they are not yet as good they are impressive and will only get better.

Sony, Canon, ... they can all design lenses that are so good, your skills will remain the limiting factor. The trick becomes one of choosing your tradeoffs, cost, weight, performance etc. and hence picking your chosen market carefully.

Leica is famous for their manual focus lenses. They age very gracefully and hence retain their value for a long time.

Where I see the challenge is that modern AF lenses are as much about their electronics, and about the performance of the camera body and sensor. Therefore, they won’t age so well and as a manufacturer you need to capture enough sales to pay for the ongoing development of the next generation. Sony are vertically integrated - state of the art sensors, cameras and lenses with a reputation for quality, an envious position.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Mr.Prime

[SoarFM]

20 hours ago, Mr.Prime said:

they can all design lenses that are so good, your skills will remain the limiting factor.

Yes, modern lenses are great. Now they need to just make them smaller. Modern Sigma 1.4. Art lenses are obscenely large, 2.8 zooms are even worse, even the Leica SL lenses are just too darned big. And even by the time you have the financial wherewithal to drop $5-$7k per SL lens, your back is too old.😀 And that’s kinda why I am such a big fan of the CL. If you are willing to forgo autofocus, you can use absolutely superb and small lenses. Even if you insist on autofocus, lens size is fantastic. The tiny zooms for the CL are just great, end to end and wide open, even if they are just a bit slow for people that always want thin zones of focus (it gets old after a while...)

And you are 100% correct, my skills are the limiting factor. What a wonderful problem to have, I mean, I want better skills, but you get my drift...

[Rick in CO]

For me, Video without AF and IBIS (or some image stabilization) is simply not worth it.  That is why I applaud Leica for keeping Live View and deleting Video on the M10.

Leica just made their Video statement with the SL2-S, but deleting video from a CL2 is unlikely, especially if IBIS is added.

I just hope it gets the EVF of the Q/Q2, which would be in line with the price of the new camera.  

  

[jaapv]

My IBIS  :

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[jaapv]

32 minutes ago, Rick in CO said:

For me, Video without AF and IBIS (or some image stabilization) is simply not worth it.  That is why I applaud Leica for keeping Live View and deleting Video on the M10.

Leica just made their Video statement with the SL2-S, but deleting video from a CL2 is unlikely, especially if IBIS is added.

I just hope it gets the EVF of the Q/Q2, which would be in line with the price of the new camera.  

  

I think that the Q EVF takes up too much space, but I think it likely that it will be improved on the CL2 Leica plays a kind of leapfrog with EVF quality.

[garygraphy]

On 7/31/2020 at 11:08 PM, DirkS said:

Maybe because Sony as a world player can pay lots of more money for developements ?

How would that rationale work for Ricoh on their GR3?

[garygraphy]

To take a different tack, do you think Leica would release a new lens to go with the CL2? If I am not wrong, Leica's strategy tends to try to release a companion lens to certain camera body releases. With CL, we had the 18mm.

I sure hope that another pancake lens could be part of the offering - this time 'obviously' a 27mm f2.8 lens which typically exists for most camera systems out there.

[SoarFM]

12 hours ago, SoarFM said:

Yes, modern lenses are great. Now they need to just make them smaller. Modern Sigma 1.4. Art lenses are obscenely large, 2.8 zooms are even worse, even the Leica SL lenses are just too darned big. And even by the time you have the financial wherewithal to drop $5-$7k per SL lens, your back is too old.😀 And that’s kinda why I am such a big fan of the CL. If you are willing to forgo autofocus, you can use absolutely superb and small lenses. Even if you insist on autofocus, lens size is fantastic. The tiny zooms for the CL are just great, end to end and wide open, even if they are just a bit slow for people that always want thin zones of focus (it gets old after a while...)

And you are 100% correct, my skills are the limiting factor. What a wonderful problem to have, I mean, I want better skills, but you get my drift...

Okay, I'm quoting myself which I am sure is a bad practice, but upon reflection, I thought my tone might have been a little sharp. I would like to just temper my remarks by saying, I am sure the SL and its native lenses are superb and a joy to use. I am not averse to larger cameras, in fact I have one (er, um, actually more than one...), but namely a Hasselblad 907x and XCD lenses. They are great, eye popping and almost every frame I make reminds me how I have eliminated equipment shortcomings as any plausible excuse for images that don't rise to the level I aspire. Even at it's modest size, It's a tripod camera for me.  I realize that not everyone wants to have 2 systems and the SL and the lenses might be great middle ground (not a compromise) and allow you to use all your relatively tiny M mount lenses accumulated over a lifetime on a superb EVF body. And you can take out you big honkin' L mount lenses when the mood or need arises!

[GFW2-SCUSA]

17 pages thus far in this thread.  I wonder if anything said herein will make any one reading a better photographer. Perhaps what we need is not better cameras but better photographers.  Consider all the classic greats, all the masters (male and female) and the equipment they had and used. I don't see that all the wonderful modern technology which we enjoy has made a generation of giants equal to or greater than the giants of the last century. Perhaps we should rely less on our equipment and work harder on our artistic endeavors.  

I see no harm in the discussion of this thread, I merely think we might do well to pause and consider where it will take us as artists/photographers. 

[lct]

3 hours ago, GFW2-SCUSA said:

Perhaps we should rely less on our equipment and work harder on our artistic endeavors.  

Or perhaps we work hard enough on other things and photography is just a hobby .

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[LocalHero1953]

Or treat this thread for what it is, speculation about a new camera, and start a new thread on photographic skills? I agree with your premise - I got into Leicas because I found them to be capable of taking far better pictures than my skills allowed - but I'm still interested in the CL2 and what it may be able to do. The two interests are not incompatible.