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Hoping that CL2 = mini SL2


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Debatable - but yes - Leica always uses dedicated sensors with their own specification filter and microlenses. For APS-C the sensors themselves are mostly Sony. For full frame they have been known to use the same maker as Panasonic.

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Hopefully made in Wetzlar Leica cameras are nothing near a Panasonic Lumix camera. 
Just put S1R and SL2 side by side. Nothing can be stranger than the other one. Even if they share the same EVF, rear screen, sensor and DFD AF. Everything else is different. And that’s what count. 
 

Leica also has a kind of magic with Sony sensors :    
- best implementation of Sony 16MP FSI APS-C sensors with T/TL and X/X Vario.
- best implementation of Sony 24MP FSI APS-C sensors with TL2/CL. 
- best implementation of Sony 24MP BSI 24x36 sensor with SL2-S. 

I hope that they can continue that trend with Sony 26MP BSI APS-C sensor with CL2  

Even with limited means they can challenge anyone in IQ department. 
 

 

 

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7 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Just put S1R and SL2 side by side.

Yes, that is very well done. Open them up and you will see many similarities. Leica and Panasonic shop at the same suppliers...
And yes, the sensor maker for Leica APS is Sony, that goes back to the 1" sensor on the Digilux 2 (and Panasonic twin) Less than a success technically, that one - the majority failed over time.
As I said, the sensor maker is less relevant. The specifications of the Bayer filter and microlenses count, together with the firmware  of the camera,  and those set Leica apart. They built up their expertise with the microlenses with the M8 and M9 -they had to - and the colour filtering choices date back to their cooperation with Kodak, which was industry leading at the time.

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Paged through part of this thread. Many of you have spent a lot more time thinking about what you want in the CL2...

IBIS please.

I am quite happy with its size, or more importantly with the size of the lenses. If the body gets a few millimeters or so larger, I don't really care. What I know is that I have some lightweight and small zoom lenses that are sharp wide open, and end to end. You can keep it at 24megapixel. If you can update the sensor for a little better low light capability (ala SL2-S) that'd be great.

The SL2 and SL2-S look great in every way, the latter proof that 24 megapixel is enough, but what keeps me away is the size of the lenses. If I'm in a situation where I can use something that big, I'll just go straight to medium format--and I do.

And I'll finish up by reiterating my wish for IBIS. I'm not as steady as I used to be (bad accident 10 years ago) and the Q2 IBIS is fabulous, gimme some of that on a CL.

 

 

Edited by SoarFM
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If the general design and size of the CL2 is the same, but with IBIS and BP-SCL4 batteries then I am in, pretty much no matter what the other specs are. 
 

I would expect that the camera would need to grow a bit of depth to accommodate one or both of those things, but I’m not a camera designer so what do I know. Even if it gets a bit chunkier I am totally ok with this. 
 

I can’t understate how important having 2-3 bodies that share batteries is to me, especially for travel. Having a Q2, SL2 or SL2-S, and CL2 would be an amazingly flexible kit that could cover pretty much any and all of my needs, especially if the AF of the SL2-S delivers on its promises. 

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I totally agree. Having BP-SCL4 as the sole universal Leica battery would be awesome. 

CL2 would have to be taller to accommodate it. Which is fine. Because it is actually a bit too short for my liking. Even with the grip, which only adds half a cm. 
 

 

But the most important upgrade. Well above IBIS, 26MP or weathersealing, is to include the new Maestro III 

Having a very very fast CPU is crucial for  excellent DFD AF.

Q2 is the prime exemple of a great body underpowered. Every complaints I got with Q2, come from its 5 years old Maestro II. 
There is a huge difference in AF performance between SL2 and Q2
 

So please Leica bring Maestro III to CL2. Otherwise it might be dead on arrival. 

Edited by nicci78
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So...to reiterate (perhaps in likelihood of happening):

1.  Improved back-lit sensor, 26 to 30-some Mp, with Maestro III.  This would be obviously included in a new version.

2.  Increased EVF resolution:  3.7 Mp of the Q series or the 4.4 Mp of the SL.  Again, an additive improvement.  (Higher Res EVF help with the tele zoom lenses?)

3.  IBIS:  How can they make an up-to-date (and expensive) camera without IBIS versus only if the size is kept as is?

4.  Weather sealing, as most use it as a travel and go anywhere camera.

5.  Common battery with Q and SL series.  If IBIS increases body size, only then might this be possible?  No priority for M shooters.

Okay, I was totally wrong on the SL2-S, but I would buy a CL2 with #'s 1 & 2.  With #'s 1-4 I would pre-order.

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None of the TL lenses are sealed, so a sealed body with less than an optimally sealed lens mount area? Doubt we see that....

As a former Olympus user, having sealed bodies is overrated for most owners.

Edited by Gregm61
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I'd just be happy for improved sensor and EVF. I like the no-port design and would prefer no video (remove the mics and means fewer options in menu/top panel display).

I wouldn't want it any larger or with a grip - it's the size and design that attracted me to it. 

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7 hours ago, Rick in CO said:

So...to reiterate (perhaps in likelihood of happening):

1.  Improved back-lit sensor, 26 to 30-some Mp, with Maestro III.  This would be obviously included in a new version.

2.  Increased EVF resolution:  3.7 Mp of the Q series or the 4.4 Mp of the SL.  Again, an additive improvement.  (Higher Res EVF help with the tele zoom lenses?)

3.  IBIS:  How can they make an up-to-date (and expensive) camera without IBIS versus only if the size is kept as is?

4.  Weather sealing, as most use it as a travel and go anywhere camera.

5.  Common battery with Q and SL series.  If IBIS increases body size, only then might this be possible?  No priority for M shooters.

Okay, I was totally wrong on the SL2-S, but I would buy a CL2 with #'s 1 & 2.  With #'s 1-4 I would pre-order.

If the CL2 has IBIS, I'm all over it. If not, I am just fine with the CL. Would not switch for 1, 2, 4 or 5. 

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21 hours ago, Rick in CO said:

So...to reiterate (perhaps in likelihood of happening):

1.  Improved back-lit sensor, 26 to 30-some Mp, with Maestro III.  This would be obviously included in a new version.

2.  Increased EVF resolution:  3.7 Mp of the Q series or the 4.4 Mp of the SL.  Again, an additive improvement.  (Higher Res EVF help with the tele zoom lenses?)

3.  IBIS:  How can they make an up-to-date (and expensive) camera without IBIS versus only if the size is kept as is?

4.  Weather sealing, as most use it as a travel and go anywhere camera.

5.  Common battery with Q and SL series.  If IBIS increases body size, only then might this be possible?  No priority for M shooters.

Okay, I was totally wrong on the SL2-S, but I would buy a CL2 with #'s 1 & 2.  With #'s 1-4 I would pre-order.

If they can fit IBIS into the GR3 (its ridiculously small) and if the A7C can have IBIS, its ridiculous if CL2 doesn't come with. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

What is the problem when it is present? Nobody is forcing you to use it, and another user may well be happy to have it. A simple video option for a "moving photograph" is quite useful in travel photography, and the video feature on the CL is really nothing more than that. As a matter of fact the lack of video on the M10 after it was incorporated in the M240 made me switch to the L system and not upgrade to the M10. Leica would lose quite a few sales if it were not present in their EVF cameras.

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Mirrorless cameras are video cameras actually. Otherwise there will be no live view at all. 
It kind of make sense to remove video in pure rangefinder and DSLR experience without live view.
But if you need live view, you’ll need video capabilities. 

I think that Leica listen too much to the NO video camp, by removing the dedicated video button. Making the ergonomic worst today : swipe to switch from photo to video mode really ? Most stupid move ever. 
Just like M10 should have kept video capabilities. Why cripple such a fine camera ?
BTW I switch from M10 to CL, because I cannot bare the lack of video. Most of us need video at one point. 

Video is not the enemy of photos. They are complimentary. That’s why it is now ubiquitous to do both. No more boundaries between them. And it is awesome. The same device can do both now. And it is awesome. 
Do not hesitate to learn some new skills. Videos are hard to do right. But don’t be lazy : practice it until you master it. Then you won’t be afraid of the V word. 

Edited by nicci78
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I have zero problem with including features in a camera that I don't need myself, but the camera can do. The lack of video was a contributing factor also for me in not moving to the M10 from the M240, though the lack of an electronic/silent shutter was the main one. However I can understand Leica not including video in order to avoid overheating. I just hope they don't leave it out for some notional retro aesthetic. 

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