wlaidlaw Posted June 5, 2015 Share #261 Posted June 5, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) and 3 times the weight and size Well maybe 1.25 the size but about the same weight. OTOH, I have not had a bad one from the 5 CV lenses I have owned at various times. 75% failure rate on the last four new Leica lenses I have bought. Perhaps the child labourers at Zeiss are more meticulous than the gnomes of Wetzlar Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Summilux 28 now out!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
CheshireCat Posted June 5, 2015 Share #262 Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Well maybe 1.25 the size but about the same weight. OTOH, I have not had a bad one from the 5 CV lenses I have owned at various times. 75% failure rate on the last four new Leica lenses I have bought. Perhaps the child labourers at Zeiss are more meticulous than the gnomes of Wetzlar Same here. No issues with several Zeiss (ZM and ZE) and CV lenses. Only issues I had were with a couple Canon and the Leica Summicron 75. I say the jet-set gnomes in Wetzlar need a pay cut Edited June 5, 2015 by CheshireCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 5, 2015 Share #263 Posted June 5, 2015 Zeiss has equivalent precision manufacturing for a fraction of the price. Either Zeiss is exploiting child labour, or Leica thinks we are a bunch of suckers Not really - when my Zeiss Biogon 21 collapsed Will van Manen explained to me at great length that Zeiss' engineering was not a the same level as Leica's - and he is critical enough of Leica... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 5, 2015 Share #264 Posted June 5, 2015 Jaap, I am sure you are correct on the longevity of the lenses and I am aware that heavily used ZM lenses have had a lubrication failure issue. My point was more on whether the lenses were made, adjusted and checked correctly from new. Three out of four new Leica lenses (50 Noctilux, 75 Summitar and 35 Summicron) were so far out of adjustment, that I detected a significant problem within seconds of mounting them on a camera. I just cannot understand how these can escape out of the factory door. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 5, 2015 Share #265 Posted June 5, 2015 Jaap, I am sure you are correct on the longevity of the lenses and I am aware that heavily used ZM lenses have had a lubrication failure issue. My point was more on whether the lenses were made, adjusted and checked correctly from new. Three out of four new Leica lenses (50 Noctilux, 75 Summitar and 35 Summicron) were so far out of adjustment, that I detected a significant problem within seconds of mounting them on a camera. I just cannot understand how these can escape out of the factory door. Wilson If I picked up lens at the factory and it was out of adjustment I would be unhappy. After ice seen how boxes are bounced across a parking lot, thrown, stepped on in shipping and in stores and dropped I'm not surprised. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 6, 2015 Share #266 Posted June 6, 2015 If I picked up lens at the factory and it was out of adjustment I would be unhappy. After ice seen how boxes are bounced across a parking lot, thrown, stepped on in shipping and in stores and dropped I'm not surprised. I think the lenses are far more robust than folks think. I do quite a lot of classic car rallying, often in ex-race or ex professional rally cars with rock hard suspension. Sometimes these rallies are on very rough non-tarmac roads . My various M cameras with different lenses have sat in these cars for years and none of the lenses have ever gone out of adjustment. I am afraid a significant proportion of these lenses are just wrongly set up at the factory. The lenses are always very well packed whether they come direct from the factory or a Leica dealer. Wilson 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted June 6, 2015 Share #267 Posted June 6, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) The lens are calibrated in factory and screwed firmly into place. Unless the screws come lose they should not lose alignment. And these are fairly large screws which hold the lens in place. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted June 6, 2015 Share #268 Posted June 6, 2015 Well I am liking the 28mm Summilux now that I have used it in real life, albeit, so far, only really at middle apertures. The Summilux produces images of a standard comparable to my other modern Leica lenses. I am going to send my Summicron back in for checking, as perhaps its just the focus being hit and miss: sometimes the lens can be great, at other times it is almost mushy, I hope it's not operator error but I don't see why it would happen mainly with this lens. (The others are either faster, and so it is easier to tell that focus has been missed, or wider and slower, when precise focus is less important.) When it's on form, I like the Summicron too, for its more gentle rendering, but have lost confidence in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 6, 2015 Share #269 Posted June 6, 2015 Well I am liking the 28mm Summilux now that I have used it in real life, albeit, so far, only really at middle apertures. Would you (or anyone else) be brave enough to say "I hate it and its going back tomorrow" Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 6, 2015 Share #270 Posted June 6, 2015 Would you (or anyone else) be brave enough to say "I hate it and its going back tomorrow" Wilson That would be very interesting ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted June 6, 2015 Share #271 Posted June 6, 2015 It's unlikely that anyone is going to take that view, based on my (admittedly so far limited experience). It delivers, although a lens this fast will undoubtedly have quirks like the other aperture-stretched wide angles. The 28mm Summicron is the closest I have got to taking the lens back, but even that sometimes produces photos that I like, and I like the fact that it renders differently from my other lenses; extends the available palette. I also like the 28mm angle, so have stuck with the Summicron, assuming that it is operator error, but so far the Summilux has given me great results without any particular effort. Things will be even better when we get a Lightroom profile for the lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiepphotog Posted June 6, 2015 Share #272 Posted June 6, 2015 It's unlikely that anyone is going to take that view, based on my (admittedly so far limited experience). It delivers, although a lens this fast will undoubtedly have quirks like the other aperture-stretched wide angles. The 28mm Summicron is the closest I have got to taking the lens back, but even that sometimes produces photos that I like, and I like the fact that it renders differently from my other lenses; extends the available palette. I also like the 28mm angle, so have stuck with the Summicron, assuming that it is operator error, but so far the Summilux has given me great results without any particular effort. Things will be even better when we get a Lightroom profile for the lens. jrp, so at middle aperture (I assume you meant f/5.6 and f/8), which one do you prefer (or sharper), between the Lux and Cron? I'm afraid that the Lux would still have field curvature at these apertures. Also, based on the MTF, the Lux 28 might be a bit weaker at the edges. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enboe Posted June 6, 2015 Share #273 Posted June 6, 2015 Procured from the Leica Los Angeles store this afternoon. They received three against a wait list of two. #3 is now home, planning to shoot it tomorrow. Size is between the 35 FLE and the 24/1.4. It's a little too long for the standard case, so out comes the big nose model (would I, would I). Mfg. date 2015/05/06. Alas, now the only lens I am still seeking is the Noctilux 1.2, but for less than $20K! Eric Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted June 6, 2015 Share #274 Posted June 6, 2015 jrp, so at middle aperture (I assume you meant f/5.6 and f/8), which one do you prefer (or sharper), between the Lux and Cron? I'm afraid that the Lux would still have field curvature at these apertures. Also, based on the MTF, the Lux 28 might be a bit weaker at the edges. The Summilux is sharper to me at all apertures. The two lenses render quite differently (as I have mentioned in earlier posts). I have not, however, done an extensive comparison, looking for focus shift at close v far distances, field waviness comparisons, etc. What I can say is that I am (more than) satisfied with the pics from the Summilux, which lives up to my expectations, compared with other lenses, whereas the jury remains out on the Summicron for reasons I have explained. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted June 7, 2015 Share #275 Posted June 7, 2015 The Summilux is sharper to me at all apertures. The two lenses render quite differently (as I have mentioned in earlier posts). I have not, however, done an extensive comparison, looking for focus shift at close v far distances, field waviness comparisons, etc. What I can say is that I am (more than) satisfied with the pics from the Summilux, which lives up to my expectations, compared with other lenses, whereas the jury remains out on the Summicron for reasons I have explained. Yes, I found the SX to be a smidge crisper and always brighter than the Summicron with the "lens tests" that I attempted today, using a tripod, LV 10x focus confirmation and a Zacuto loupe. In other words, at f/2, the SX is just nicer in pixel peeping measures than the SM, and then the difference seems to grow as the aperture closes to f/4. My Summicron has nicer corners, and quite obviously so, than my 28 SX-- and that is true at every lens opening (f/1.4 thru f/4). The direct comparison of the lenses is nigh impossible, however. I cannot fathom how Lloyd Chambers does it (note that Sean Reid uses a very two-dimensional scene in his comparisons, as does Mr. Puts!). My Summicron zone of focus flops backwards, whereas the Summilux flops forwards. So any interpretation of pop and 3D is highly subjective because the two lenses are doing different things. My subjective comment is that the Summilux is worth it, and that f/1.4 from 2m or so is quite nice, which the Summicron does not offer. The Summilux images are smoother and brighter. Regarding the idea that no one would admit not liking the lens and wanting to send it back, that seems odd to me. I imagine you can resell the 28 SX on line today (i.e., this forum) for nearly full value. In any case, once you learn to work the lens to its capability with a few hundred shots, I imagine it is a keeper based on what it delivers. Trading a good Summicron for a new Summilux, however, is an entirely subjective choice. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 7, 2015 Share #276 Posted June 7, 2015 The point I was trying to make is that if you felt that a lens was disappointing, having spent a lot of money on it, would you be honest enough with yourself to admit it and either try to get your money back, exchange it for something else or sell it on? I bought a 75 Summarit. The first one was totally wrong and I took it back to Richard Caplin's in Mayfair, who agreed that it had to go back to Leica and gave me a replacement on the spot. I tested it in the shop and it focussed properly. However on using it I found its results disappointing with flat and boring rendition. I suspect I should have asked if I could have exchanged it for a 75 APO Summicron. It has actually come in useful in the long term as its flat rendition makes it a good technical lens for archival photography. It makes you wonder if it is because it has no technical quirks, that the pictures appear flat, rather like it is the distortion/artificial warming of the sound from vinyl records that makes them pleasing to many folks' ears. The sound from high quality digital is more technically correct but may not sound as nice. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted June 7, 2015 Share #277 Posted June 7, 2015 Nothing improves an experience like having something to say about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiepphotog Posted June 7, 2015 Share #278 Posted June 7, 2015 ...The direct comparison of the lenses is nigh impossible, however. I cannot fathom how Lloyd Chambers does it (note that Sean Reid uses a very two-dimensional scene in his comparisons, as does Mr. Puts!). My Summicron zone of focus flops backwards, whereas the Summilux flops forwards. So any interpretation of pop and 3D is highly subjective because the two lenses are doing different things... Thank you for the input. Having tested and compared many lenses, test like Sean Reid's, slanted infinity shot, is actually a good assessment of field curvature and centering. I know my Summicron has mild, but noticeable focus shift (backward away from the camera) from f/2 to f/4 by doing this kind of test. Since you have LV, matching center focus would be easy. From there, a direct comparison is possible. If Leica would implement movable LV point, you can also match the corner focus, and it would reveal some quite interesting characteristics as well. I often do this kind of test to learn about my lens quickly and to identify a faulty lens. My standard for sharpness is not that high, but my tolerance for field curvature is very low. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 7, 2015 Share #279 Posted June 7, 2015 I have just tried my 28 Summicron with the EVF and peaking. When you focus at 2 metres, the only change as you stop down from f2 is the peaking gets brighter and covers a larger area but seems to stay centred on the same place to the extent I can detect. To do a more accurate test I would need to get out my Nikon focus chart, which I have now printed at A2 size. So on my example of the 28 Summicron, if there is aperture shift, it is at a level that need not be worried about. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiepphotog Posted June 7, 2015 Share #280 Posted June 7, 2015 I have just tried my 28 Summicron with the EVF and peaking. When you focus at 2 metres, the only change as you stop down from f2 is the peaking gets brighter and covers a larger area but seems to stay centred on the same place to the extent I can detect. To do a more accurate test I would need to get out my Nikon focus chart, which I have now printed at A2 size. So on my example of the 28 Summicron, if there is aperture shift, it is at a level that need not be worried about. Wilson Wilson, the best would be to take a picture at f/4 with the focus at f/2 and another with the focus at f/4. I'm quite sure of this behavior because Lloyd Chamber got the same thing on his copy. The shift is minor though so unless you have a side-by-side comparison, you might not notice it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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