Printing Monochrom Images

[MarkP]

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With sadly wedding photographers going to the wall everywhere, you can sometimes pick up digital enlargers amazingly cheaply nowadays. There were a De Vere and a Horsemann going locally at the end of last year for around £300 and £700, with no takers. The problem for colour is that you need a big darkroom and to have a substantial throughput to make the chemicals economical, as their mixed life is quite short. Most B&W chemicals last longer and are cheaper to begin with.

 

Wilson

 

That's why athough I'm very happy with my Pixma Pro 9500 MarkII at home (especially as I often print quad toned for B&W), I don't want to get into chemical processing so I send these out to Blanco Negro for the B&W DeVere prints.

[MarkP]

Mark,

 

Here for ink - PIGMENT INK REFILL SET COMPATIBLE FOR CANON PIXMA PRO9500 MK II CARTRIDGES CISS | eBay or Canon Pro 9500 (Mk I & Mk II) : Bulk ink Canon compatible ink set (100ml x10 bottle set)

 

Here for chip resetter - PGI-9 Chip Resetter for Canon Pixma Pro 9500 cartridges [uSB Powered] | eBay

 

Wilson

 

 

Thanks Wilson,

 

looks fantastic. Anything I need to know about these and any downside apart from Canon's profits?

 

Mark

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[wlaidlaw]

Thanks Wilson,

 

looks fantastic. Anything I need to know about these and any downside apart from Canon's profits?

 

Mark

 

Mark,

 

Usually the problem with these bulk inks or cheap cartridges is colour matching and viscosity. I bought a whole pack of PGI-9's from Fleabay for the Pixma Pro 9500 now in Jaap's hands. They were useless. The colours were wrong, the ink was too runny and did not dry properly on the prints with resultant smearing. By the time I came to use them, the seller had vanished. One of these sellers that seems to be domestic but is actually located in deepest China. For that reason, I would prefer to buy the ink from an ink supplier than Fleabay, as they have more interest in standing behind their product. I am sure there must be someone in Australia who sells bulk ink. The chip resetter I had for my Epson R800 and R1800 worked just fine. One possibility is to stick to the black/grey inks only from bulk supplies, as it is easier for the third party supplier to get these spot on.

 

Wilson

[fotografr]

Yesterday I received my first box of the Canson Baryta Photographique and have now made a half dozen prints from the MM with it on my Epson R3000. It's a great combination of camera, printer and paper. For the first time since making the digital conversion, I feel like I've come full circle. These prints are everything I ever wanted in B&W photography--far better than what I was able to achieve in decades of darkroom printing. It's really a great feeling!

[manolo]

, I feel like I've come full circle.

 

I still have to do a lot of printing and have not much experience. I want to start and while thinking how; I thought of laser printers, how they only do black and white, how they are very detailed, fast, easy and the tint cartridge last a long time.

 

I wonder what more experienced printers think about these laser printers?

[wlaidlaw]

I still have to do a lot of printing and have not much experience. I want to start and while thinking how; I thought of laser printers, how they only do black and white, how they are very detailed, fast, easy and the tint cartridge last a long time.

 

I wonder what more experienced printers think about these laser printers?

 

I don't think you can get the right gradation of greys with a laser printer. It only has black ink, so in effect has to use a photogravure effect to get greys. I used to have a Xerox hot wax sublimation printer. It was fine for things like brochures and posters but useless for photos, both colour and black and white.

 

Wilson

[manolo]

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Thanks Wilson, that sounds right. On advantages of laser printing I found that they are water proof. I also found a way to transfer to wood or other mediums in a tutorial in this page:

 

Las Vegas Glamour Boudoir Photography | How To Transfer A Photo To Wood - A Fun Photography DIY Tutorial

[wlaidlaw]

Thanks Wilson, that sounds right. On advantages of laser printing I found that they are water proof. I also found a way to transfer to wood or other mediums in a tutorial in this page:

 

Las Vegas Glamour Boudoir Photography | How To Transfer A Photo To Wood - A Fun Photography DIY Tutorial

 

You could do the same thing with my Xerox Phaser printer by printing in mirror image on special transfer paper. My girls use to do fake tattoos to give their mother a heart attack.

 

Wilson

[manolo]

My girls use to do fake tattoos to give their mother a heart attack.

 

Wilson

 

My daughters also

[Anthony Harvey]

I know that I risk being taken for a heretic but having tried so many different methods and materials - and being fully satisfied with none - I have totally given up and now upload my digital monochrome files to a reputable company that prints them to Ilford black and white RC paper using wet chemistry.

 

I feel much happier than when I was forever trying to perfect inkjet printing. I can now relax completely and spend more time and thought on taking the photos in the first place. It's such a relief. And the prints are very very close to the traditional prints I used to get when I enlarged negatives on to Ilford Ilfobrom paper and developed in Kodak Dektol.

 

When I take into account the accumulated costs of my previous efforts I've get a sinking feeling that I've spent a fortune and that uploading is actually cheaper. After all, one only prints the best shots.

[Leopold Green]

I know that I risk being taken for a heretic but having tried so many different methods and materials - and being fully satisfied with none - I have totally given up and now upload my digital monochrome files to a reputable company that prints them to Ilford black and white RC paper using wet chemistry.

 

As someone about to take his first 'plunge' into digital can you tell me the name of the company? I would much prefer to concentrate on what digital means for my photography and leave learning about printer till much later plus anything which promises to use 'wet chemistry' would be a safety blanket for me...

[wattsy]

I know that I risk being taken for a heretic ...now upload my digital monochrome files to a reputable company that prints them to Ilford black and white RC paper using wet chemistry.

 

There's nothing heretical in my mind about this approach – it's what I've done for the last few years with M9 and, more recently, M Monochrom. I've found it often takes a test print or two to get things right (even with the provision of print profiles) but once you have a good workflow I find Lightjet and Lambda prints a very cost effective method of printing. I've had decent success using Metro, theprintspace, Genesis and Ilford for this type of print.

[digitalfx]

As someone about to take his first 'plunge' into digital can you tell me the name of the company? I would much prefer to concentrate on what digital means for my photography and leave learning about printer till much later plus anything which promises to use 'wet chemistry' would be a safety blanket for me...

 

I use Digital Silver Imaging, and have never been disappointed.

[Anthony Harvey]

Yes, Leopold, I use ILFORD Lab Direct and am getting superb quality results that completely re-create in print form the images that are on my screen. I haven't tried the others that Ian and digitalfx have mentioned but knowing my perfectionist streak I'm bound to have a go some time soon!

 

Since you mention that you're new to this field, it may help if I briefly mention some things that may be useful to you, so as to save you time. The most important thing for me has been using Silver Efex Pro 2 to convert colour jpgs to monochrome. It really can give a very definite film quality without much messing about. It all turns on what sort of monochrome image you want. In my case I want to get prints like those that came from HP4 (I preferred it to HP5+) or Tri-X or HP5+ or any other 400 ASA film. For these sort of prints make sure you either put in some grain (try 330 as a start) or use a film emulation as a starting point. In fact I start with one of the 400 ASA film emulations, usually APX 400 or HP5+ or Tri-X, and then I make fine adjustments as might be needed to brightness and contrast. Then I check the grain level and change it if needed. By using the emulations I rarely need to touch the control called "structure". I try to reduce computer fiddling to a minimum. Then I resize as advised by ILFORD, upload and pay, all in one go, and then the prints arrive two or three days later. Although it's expensive for small quantities, the price drops massively for a print order equivalent to the old 24 or 36 exposure film processing of the old days.

 

I'm still using film in an M7 and F6 because I get a superb tonal "colour" to the greys by using Fomapan 400 at 400, and having the results printed on traditional RC paper by Monoprint, near Oxford, UK. I don't think the special quality of Fomapan is so noticeable if the negatives are simply scanned rather than printed. I don't know what developer Monoprint use with Fomapan 400 (I might ask them - they are so helpful). They just do developing and traditional enlarging through an enlarging lens. It's still fabulous and worthwhile.

 

Ian, I just looked at your website - your photos are truly superb. Brilliant.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Anthony Harvey
correct an error

[wlaidlaw]

At a slight tangent, does anyone have a recommendation for B&W "by mail" processing both C41 and traditional silver halide in the UK. I would prefer good to fast or cheap. My last few films have been spoilt by the Vault and Colourstream in Brighton, Sussex. The Vault's processing of some 35mm B&W and 120 Colour was amongst the worst I have ever seen. I had a couple of Delta 3200 films done by Colourstream, where I asked them to pull the rating to 1600 ISO. They pushed them to 6400, so every photo was over-exposed!

 

Sadly due to many years of being stupidly careless with photo chemicals and not wearing gloves, I have thoroughly sensitised myself to pretty much all developers - you have been warned. Thus I can no longer home process.

 

Wilson

[wattsy]

Ian, I just looked at your website - your photos are truly superb. Brilliant.

 

That's kind of you to say, thank you.

It's interesting what you write about using Silver Efex. I also find the APX 400 film type setting as a good starting point for many of my conversions although one of the things I have found with Silver Efex is that the presets are very subject/lighting dependent and I haven't found a 'recipe' that I can use consistently in the same way I might have done with a favourite film type.

[Leopold Green]

Yes, Leopold, I use ILFORD Lab Direct and am getting superb quality results that completely re-create in print form the images that are on my screen. I haven't tried the others that Ian and digitalfx have mentioned but knowing my perfectionist streak I'm bound to have a go some time soon!

 

Since you mention that you're new to this field, it may help if I briefly mention some things that may be useful to you...

 

Thanks ever so much - digital seems all a little daunting but exciting also and I've seen some great examples on this forum which are the equal (I mean better really) than I ever got with film

[jpk]

MM on Epson 3880.

 

Coming from the wet darkroom I am enjoying the flexibility and comfort of digital processing / printing.

 

I got the printer new a couple of weeks ago and ordered some paper sample packages (Ilford, Hahnemühle, Canson, other). There is a very thin Ilford paper (forgot the name) with an absolutely perfect glossy surface: this paper I get the most out of some of my files, but I don't like the feel of it, and I prefer the less glossy surfaces of Hahnemühle Pearl or Canson Baryta.

 

At the beginning I was surprised how good the prints look out of the box, but after all the paper tests I can see that I need to improve printing skills.

 

My favorite papers are Canson Rag Photographique and Platin Fibre.

 

But I did not get one single print to look as deep and rich as the lightjet print included with the Monochrom: either they look washed in comparison or too artificial...

 

BTW I did also order some test prints on digital enlargers and lightjet / lambda siver gelatine: for me the lightjet was better than the digital enlarger.

[gjames9142]

I have an Epson 4900 in my studio, and use Ilford Gfs and, more recently, Canson baryta photo. I try to use it every day -- it has been pretty much trouble free over its three-year life.

For larger exhibition prints I work with a very good custom printer in Toronto, who uses Capture one and DCRaw as opposed to LR, which is all I know. From the M9, I don't usually go larger than 36 inches, 40 or 48 for the Monochrom. I still have a lot to learn, and in fact don't have a lot of technical knowledge -- much of what has been written in his thread goes over my head. I work visually and intuitively -- I usually have a clear idea of what I am after. The Monochrom is an amazing camera, and I am really enjoying working with it -- my first book using the. Monochrom is scheduled to be published August 2014. Photography is a feedback system. The more you do, the better you get.

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[Anthony Harvey]

It's interesting what you write about using Silver Efex. I also find the APX 400 film type setting as a good starting point for many of my conversions although one of the things I have found with Silver Efex is that the presets are very subject/lighting dependent and I haven't found a 'recipe' that I can use consistently in the same way I might have done with a favourite film type.

 

Exactly what I find, Ian! What film emulation works for one image can give the most appalling starting point for another, and I have to find a different emulation to start with, or, sadly, begin fiddling with the controls myself.