fotografr Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share #21 Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry for the long winded reply, but it has been fun researching this aspect of printing. mikephaling.com You provided a lot of excellent information. Thank you. It seems the Epson R3880 is the printer of choice. I didn't take that option because of space limitations. The R3000 fits very snugly into the space on my desk, but I'm still very happy with the results I'm getting. I printed a 13x19 today that looks superb. There are some paper choices some of you have mentioned that I'll definitely try. Thanks to all who replied. I also use a R3000 (great printer) and Da Vinci Archival White (for B&W generally) and Fibre Gloss Smooth (for colour) paper from Chau Digital http://www.chaudigital.com/[/url]) here in London. I'm having trouble finding a source for DaVinci in the US, but will keep trying. Edited April 17, 2013 by fotografr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 Hi fotografr, Take a look here Printing Monochrom Images. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted April 17, 2013 Share #22 Posted April 17, 2013 Has anybody got experience with Tecco paper? My dealer recommended Tecco baryta paper with Canon ink. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Holy Moly Posted April 17, 2013 Share #23 Posted April 17, 2013 Has anybody got experience with Tecco paper? My dealer recommended Tecco baryta paper with Canon ink. Hi Jaap, I would recommend Mr. Columbus from 'farbenwerk', in Dorsten, NRW. He is the supplier of different ink systems for color and b&w, mainly for Epson and Canon. He has a lot of informations and is very friendly, even at the phone... He is also the vendor of Tecco papers and can create ICC profiles for your favorite printer/ink/paper combination. http://shop.farbenwerk.com/schwarzweiss-tinten Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsie Posted April 18, 2013 Share #24 Posted April 18, 2013 Wattsie, how does the real-world output from Piezography compare to the 3800 using Epson ABW (or, if you've used it, the standard inkset running under the Quadtone RIP)? To my tastes, I get smoother tonality with the K7 inkjet than ABW. The additional "black" inks must make a difference here and Jon Cone builds very nice curves. I played around with QTR for a while as well. It is an improvement on ABW, but to really get the benefits there is a fair amount of tweaking with the profiles/curves. The Piezography approach requires less of this, because Jon's canned curves work very well an d he will also build you a custom curve if you need it. Can you get a decent warmtone result from any papers with the selenium inks? I think so. Are you using the inkset with the glop? This is a must if you are using glossy papers. Once the GO goes on the print sinks into the paper in a beautiful way, reminiscent more of a traditional print than an inkjet print. Oh, and (at the risk of too many questions...) is the selenium a smack-you-in-the-face purply-blue, or can you tone it down with paper choice? Some of the earlier Cone selenium inksets were too strong for my taste, I went with warm-neutral as an early days user. No. It differs with paper choice. You can get them to send you some samples. I love Canson Platine Fibre inkjet paper. It the same paper base I usually use for platinum prints. How would you describe the print color with that paper? A slightly warmish tone with a subtle selenium tone. Epson exhibition fibre will give a more neutral tone, although I worry about the longevity of papers with significant OBAs. There is also a neutral K7 inkjet now which comes in a glossy set. Sorry about the question barrage, I got a little carried away. Making prints is much more interesting than arguing about M vs. MM, M9, M8.2, M3 (or even the M, being the M that someday replaces the M). Ain't that the truth! Later, Clyde 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petster Posted April 18, 2013 Share #25 Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) Pretty awesome thread. I'm using a R3000 as well and I use them because of space limitations. I'm mainly using Hahnemuehle Baryta and here as we'll I am pretty happy with the results. But I must admit that my b/w printing skills are not the best, so I am just trying out and will do so with some of the papers mentioned here. Thanks for this. As in the post before mentioned, it is so much more interesting to talk about printing then to compare cameras. Cheers, Pete Edited April 18, 2013 by Petster Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted April 18, 2013 Share #26 Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) I've just bought an Epson 3880 and have tested various papers, thus far with manufacturers profiles only: Epson Professional SemiGloss Ilford Prestige Mono Silk Ilford Gold Fibre Silk Harman by Hahnemuhle Fotospeed EG Platinum Gloss This is initial cursory testing to look at surface, depth, paper base hue and get a general idea how they print in colour and B&W. My first impression is that the Epson Semigloss is an absolute bargain. Its 90% of the best paper for most images and sometimes a lot more. Ignoring longevity etc, if I am putting images in sleeves to go in a display portfolio, this is the one to use unless I am printing a colour image that really needs gorgeous colour. For B&W (and colour) it lacks the shadow separation I would want and is IMHO a little cold. Still, for some images its just fine. None of the papers have anything like the depth of a silver gelatin print produced by someone with skill. For some images it makes no difference, but with others the difference is huge. Make no mistake here, silver gelatin is still in a different league. I will be exploring the potential for making Whitewall Silver Gelatin fibre prints very seriously. Until then, I will likely use Epson SemiGloss (for colour proofs and testing) Ilford GFS and Fotospeed Platinum gloss for B&W. The latter is a flatter less glossy paper than the other baryta papers, but there is no real loss of depth to an image viewed normally, with the gain being, it does not scratch just from being looked at. Epson Semigloss is also quite robust. FWIW most of the papers are ridiculously fragile surface wise and need great care to prevent scratches and rub marks. This has pushed me towards the Fotospeed Platinum Gloss which is a good deal more robust. The Harman and GFS both print with a slight green hue, tho more so with the former. Interestingly though, Ilford Mono Silk does not. Guess there is some more work ahead there, but FWIW I just do not see the excitement about the Harman for B&W work. Its nowhere near like a silver print, is too fragile and the surface is more like a resin coated paper i.e. very smooth and without the slight high pitch surface sparkle of a heat flattened (unglazed of course) silver print. For colour, Harman is superb, but GFS just has that something extra. Hard to define, but there IS a sparkle and a bit more presence than with any of the other papers I used. Edited April 18, 2013 by batmobile Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted April 18, 2013 Share #27 Posted April 18, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Canon ipf6400 with TrueB&W software with Museo Silver Rag and/or Canson Platine Fibre Rag. I prefer the Silver Rag due to the slightly extra heft of the paper and better packaging on the larger sheets, but both are almost identical in their coating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share #28 Posted April 18, 2013 Canon ipf6400 with TrueB&W software with Museo Silver Rag and/or Canson Platine Fibre Rag. I prefer the Silver Rag due to the slightly extra heft of the paper and better packaging on the larger sheets, but both are almost identical in their coating. I've done a bit of printing with the Museo Silver Rag on my old printer. It's a beautiful paper and I'll have to try it with the new printer and MM images. Thanks for the reminder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted April 19, 2013 Share #29 Posted April 19, 2013 Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique is also 100% cotton and has no OBAs. Fantastic paper. Jeff Ordered it yesterday and it's arriving today..I've only printed with Epson Luster and Inkpress Luster (which I think is the same)... I only print black and white and this sounds really interesting.. I am always looking for ways to improve my post production and printing skills.. great thread! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsie Posted April 19, 2013 Share #30 Posted April 19, 2013 Ordered it yesterday and it's arriving today..I've only printed with Epson Luster and Inkpress Luster (which I think is the same)... I only print black and white and this sounds really interesting.. I am always looking for ways to improve my post production and printing skills.. great thread! According to Aardenburg it does contain OBAs, but only quite low levels and so performs well in longevity testing. The Canson papers are very nice. The Aardenburg resource is worthwhile. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsie Posted April 19, 2013 Share #31 Posted April 19, 2013 Oops. Above post was meant to relate to the Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted April 19, 2013 Share #32 Posted April 19, 2013 Canon ipf6400 with TrueB&W software with Museo Silver Rag and/or Canson Platine Fibre Rag. I prefer the Silver Rag due to the slightly extra heft of the paper and better packaging on the larger sheets, but both are almost identical in their coating. Hi Charles, the TrueB&W software sounds real interesting. I went to their website, but it appears this software only works with Macs. Bummer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 19, 2013 Share #33 Posted April 19, 2013 And a limited number of printers too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted April 19, 2013 Share #34 Posted April 19, 2013 If I read correctly, True Black & White works only on Macs and Cannon printers. They have a legacy version Bowhaus that works on Epson. I did not spend a lot of time researching after TrueB&W did not work on Epson it appears.Bummer:( Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 19, 2013 Share #35 Posted April 19, 2013 According to Aardenburg it does contain OBAs, but only quite low levels and so performs well in longevity testing. The Canson papers are very nice. The Aardenburg resource is worthwhile. This may be the case (for the Baryta Photographique), as the words on the back of the box somewhat awkwardly state: "Museum grade papers and free of Optical Brightening Agents media can be kept for generations without any alteration." It doesn't specifically state that the specific paper IN the box meets this qualification. The online specs also don't specifically proclaim no OBAs. That would be consistent with this older LuLa article, which compares the paper with Ilford Gold Fibre Silk (now Prestige), which has a very small amount of OBAs. BTW, I concur with the conclusions in the article that the Canson paper is similar, but even nicer than the IGFS, which had been one of my go-to papers. Regardless, there are no reports I know of that question its longevity, and it remains a beautiful paper. I highly recommend making a custom profile to maximize its potential in one's system. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 19, 2013 Share #36 Posted April 19, 2013 Ordered it yesterday and it's arriving today..I've only printed with Epson Luster and Inkpress Luster (which I think is the same)... I only print black and white and this sounds really interesting.. I am always looking for ways to improve my post production and printing skills.. great thread! B/W prints beautifully on this paper. As you've probably learned, however, the process of switching papers isn't "plug and play." Results can not only be image specific, and of course dependent on good software editing and processing, but can be affected significantly by software and printer settings, profiles, inks, etc. The whole chain needs to be optimized, and often that comes from trial and error. My print results continually improve, even printing the same image on the same paper over time. For this reason, just as in my darkroom days, I try not to use or change too many papers at a given time. There are just too many factors involved, and learning the materials and techniques can be exponentially complicated by introducing too many variables at once. But having all the good choices available these days is a good problem to have. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share #37 Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) I've just ordered the Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique from my usual supplier. For anyone using this paper for the first time, you might want to check for settings and profiles here: http://www.canson-infinity.com/en/icc_choice.asp Edited April 19, 2013 by fotografr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkwilliam3 Posted April 19, 2013 Share #38 Posted April 19, 2013 Brent Thanks for starting this thread-There is so much info about printing that never gets much play here. If you go to the Canson Infinity site and look under tools and tips you will find icc profiles for your printer-click to download... For Jeff S and others..note that Canson does not say whether Baryta Photographique uses OBA's or not.so assume they it contains OBA's. If you look at Platine Fiber Rag you will note they specifically say no OBA"s...Also Baryta Photographique is a alpha cellulose paper..this means its not 100% cotton, and therefore needs to use OBA's..Of the BARYTA surface, only Plantine is 100% cotton, the preferred and only type papers that meet museum standards.. Regarding Hahnemuhel Baryta papers, only Photo Rag Baryta is 100% cotton, as are the other rag surfaces. Artists use Arches, Rives, etc for watercolor and drawings as these are 100% cotton. There is not much cost difference between 100% and cellulose ( which can be clothes, wood, etc ). so it is something to consider if you are concerned about maximum permanence.. Go luck with your printing Brent-you're on the right track..Mikemikephaling.com 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 19, 2013 Share #39 Posted April 19, 2013 I've just ordered the Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique from my usual supplier. For anyone using this paper for the first time, you might want to check for settings and profiles here: Canson Infinity - ICC Profiles and Paper Presets Good start, but better results based can be achieved by well executed custom profiles using one's own system, at least based on my experience. I'm fortunate that a friend has the expensive gear, and the profiling expertise, needed to create these profiles. And to emphasize the point, we reworked the profiles when he upgraded his profiling software, and my results improved again. The differences can be subtle, so it depends on one's print requirements and standards. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted April 19, 2013 Share #40 Posted April 19, 2013 If I read correctly, True Black & White works only on Macs and Cannon printers. They have a legacy version Bowhaus that works on Epson. I did not spend a lot of time researching after TrueB&W did not work on Epson it appears.Bummer:( Yup. One of the (many) reasons I went with a Canon over Epson. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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