The REAL M-240 sample images - congrats to Jono Slack

[tgm]

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Please bear with me on this - I know it's a thread about the new M but this is relevant:

 

Two 100% crops from the images that I mentioned in my earlier posting Canon is the 1st one and Leica M8.2 the second. Both are from identical file and image sizes.

 

This is what I am talking about, there is a clear difference and to my eyes. The Leica (yes even the much maligned and still superb M8) is visibly better than a Canon EOS1D Mk1V.

 

This is the level that Leica set the standard at and the new M whilst yes being good does not, (again to me others will differ) visibly have the same edge on the competition.

 

I hope that this is only an initial firmware thing because I WANT to really like this camera and yes I am on record as saying that live view and video are totally irrelevant to me, as they are on pro Nikon bodies that I use - I have NEVER since getting a D3 and D3S some 3years ago used live view - I tried it to shoot over the heads of a crowd at a pop festival and found it just too unwieldily to use and gave it up as a bad job. Image quality is VERY important though and I will gladly choose a humble M8 or M9 before any Nikon and know that either will always deliver the goods. Hope the new M proves that it too can do it

 

Are we arguing on the basis of such comparisons? Hopefully, not! The conrast is completly different, whehter it is due to different settings in photoshop, different light, who knows. But it has certainly nothing to do with the imagage quality ot the M8 or the Canon.

 

Thomas

[UliWer]

No it's not focus it's a definition thing and the way that the camera renders the image.

Well, the lenses are different, aren't they?

 

What I am not sure about is whether the M240 achieves its much better (this is clearly obvious) results at high ISO values by "smoothening" details. This would be the Canon/Nikon-way.

 

We can only see this if we have a sequel of pictures of the same motive with increasing ISO values. With the M8/M9 you could see that the noise was increasing strongly - the M9 less than the M8 - but fine details kept their structure. The examples from Canon/Nikon withhold much better against noise but "ironed" out fine structures. We havn't seen anything which shows how the M240 behaves in this respect.

 

I am more sure -though not completely - that the M240 has a larger dynamic range than the M9. If you look at the "Map" photo from Jono, you have totally black parts and the highlights at the rims of the glasses.

 

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With the DNG you can even push those highlights up some way, but they don't burn out. I am - almost - sure that the M9 would have burned out highlights under same conditions. Though we'd have to see a 1:1-comparison to get a proof.

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[rramesh]

Thanks Jono for these images.

 

Over the past two week I have seen images from Gaumy and now Jono, both very good photographers producing different results with the M240. It goes to show that one can achieve many things with the M240, just like with the M9, sometimes perfection and sometimes less so.

 

It reinforces my view that the camera is a tool and the M9 and the M240 are both very good tools that if used correctly, can produce excellent results.

 

Now my question is, can I? Until I reach the my maximum potential or hit the limits of the M9, I don't think I am ready to make the jump to the M240.

[vikasmg]

>>Next time Leica has a new camera coming out, ...<<

Oh, it's started already :-) !

[Sully]

Jono, thank you so much for your excellent review. Now, it is time for another tester to give a video review of the M240.

 

Ciao, Sully

[vikasmg]

Thanks Andy

 

Please don't shoot me either (nervous doesn't quite describe it!)

 

I hope that you're all as enthusiastic as I am.

All the best

 

Thank you so much. Lovely pictures.

 

Can't wait to download the files once I get back home on Friday. On a business trip with just an iPad at the moment. From the sound of other feedback it sounds like my ordering an M from B&H fairly early on was a good move!

 

Did I say lovely photos?!

[bybrett]

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If you check the GPS coordinates for that shot, you'll see it's obvious Jono made the shot while skiing down the slope! I would guess 1/750 was a touch too slow to freeze the movement.

 

Seriously though, I agree the tree branches don't look quite right. You can also see there is a bit of jagged edges on some of the branch tips, while others are a bit blurred looking. Will be interesting to see results with shipping firmware.

 

Definitely something amiss with that shot of the trees in the snow regarding focus with the 50... whereas the girl in the snow with the 135 is pin sharp.

[PeterP]

Definitely something amiss with that shot of the trees in the snow regarding focus with the 50... whereas the girl in the snow with the 135 is pin sharp.

 

It is odd, the snow in front of the branches is sharp. The image itself when converted to B&W is stunning. Dust spots on sensor thought. However the branches are another story- although there is not one that doesn't have any snow on it, so impossible to find a nice crisp edge. Dial down the vibrance in LR and the branches look much better.

[Rick]

Jono -

 

You are such a gracious man and fine photographer.

 

Thank you for keeping the histograms within bounds so the photos have technical meaning.

 

The photos with later dates are far superior in noise and banding control as others have mentioned.

 

I think the color is overall good but, the DNG files come in needing just a little decrease in tint... too magenta. IMHO Did you get a chance to shoot a grey card or color chart?

 

High ISO is so much improved but, are you aware of too much in-camera noise reduction? Can't tell but it looks a little smoothed out in-camera... not that that is a totally bad thing.

 

The JPGs look like Leica is doing a GREAT job. This makes me very happy because, it means the image on the LCD is going to be glorious, no?

 

Video - Not many are interested but, I am hopeful this is going to be a strong point. Any comments on the video?

 

Battery life, can you comment?

 

General feel about the speed of the processing - are we at a point where you don't feel like you are waiting on the camera to produce an image on the LCD?

 

Why so much time spent looking at the ground when you are in Venice? No, I'm just jealous of that Leica Challenge Venice picture you shot several years ago... it was a screen saver for a while on my computer. And now another cool Venice reflection shot.

 

Any comments on the new 50 APO? Not much Lateral CA in your shots. Lens or camera or both? Any general impressions?

 

Lastly, can you send me your 28-90 R-lens? Flat out, I want it.

 

Thank you Leica for giving Jono a camera to test and thank you Jono for the daring and hard work... I know you must feel like you post and then duck.

 

Rick

Edited February 6, 2013 by RickLeica

[Ivan Muller]

Please bear with me on this - I know it's a thread about the new M but this is relevant:

 

Two 100% crops from the images that I mentioned in my earlier posting Canon is the 1st one and Leica M8.2 the second. Both are from identical file and image sizes.

 

This is what I am talking about, there is a clear difference and to my eyes. The Leica (yes even the much maligned and still superb M8) is visibly better than a Canon EOS1D Mk1V.

 

This is the level that Leica set the standard at and the new M whilst yes being good does not, (again to me others will differ) visibly have the same edge on the competition.

 

I hope that this is only an initial firmware thing because I WANT to really like this camera and yes I am on record as saying that live view and video are totally irrelevant to me, as they are on pro Nikon bodies that I use - I have NEVER since getting a D3 and D3S some 3years ago used live view - I tried it to shoot over the heads of a crowd at a pop festival and found it just too unwieldily to use and gave it up as a bad job. Image quality is VERY important though and I will gladly choose a humble M8 or M9 before any Nikon and know that either will always deliver the goods. Hope the new M proves that it too can do it

 

Paul, the M8 shots look fantastic, so much so that why would one ever want more quality?..and it clearly looks better than the Canon...but and this is a big but...a raw file is like a negative it needs to be worked on...the fact that one file looks good straight out of camera doesn't mean to say that another one that doesn't look as good straight out of camera cant be made to look as good if not better with a bit of post processing. I use live view all the time, except in bright sunlight, on a tripod with 10x magnification nothing is easier or more accurate, re video, its nice to have, and how can a feature, if its not used affect your image taking experience or ability?

[k-hawinkler]

I would like to hear Jamie Roberts' take on Jono's images!

[diogenis]

Paul, the M8 shots look fantastic, so much so that why would one ever want more quality?..and it clearly looks better than the Canon...but and this is a big but...a raw file is like a negative it needs to be worked on...the fact that one file looks good straight out of camera doesn't mean to say that another one that doesn't look as good straight out of camera cant be made to look as good if not better with a bit of post processing. I use live view all the time, except in bright sunlight, on a tripod with 10x magnification nothing is easier or more accurate, re video, its nice to have, and how can a feature, if its not used affect your image taking experience or ability?

How will you ever be able to correct the missing data from microcontrast details lost in post processing? Unless Paul did some big mistake back then this big difference justifies Leica's entrance in the market and what it did to competition.

This is why you now have the option of getting a Nikon 800E I would presume

[jonoslack]

Definitely something amiss with that shot of the trees in the snow regarding focus with the 50... whereas the girl in the snow with the 135 is pin sharp.

 

Hi Brett

Actually, the girl and dog is also with the AA 50 at f2 Not sure about the branches, but I was on skis so it's entirely possible that the focus is not perfect.

All the best

[Paul986]

Has anyone noticed the red colour cast in the snow picture with the bare tree. There appears to be lots of red cast in the snow particularly left of centre.

[k-hawinkler]

Has anyone noticed the red colour cast in the snow picture with the bare tree. There appears to be lots of red cast in the snow particularly left of centre.

 

Are you sure your monitor is calibrated?

I don't see that on mine.

[chris_tribble]

No it's not focus it's a definition thing and the way that the camera renders the image.

Isn't it the case that it's the LENS that renders and image rather than the camera? Unless your comparison uses the same lens in each image it's a bit difficult to draw (sic) conclusions.

[k-hawinkler]

Hi Chris,

 

Could you please comment on your M240 images.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/271208-m240-image-london-christopher-tribble.html

 

In particular the PUSH 6400 one.

 

Thanks.

[dwbell]

Please bear with me on this - I know it's a thread about the new M but this is relevant:

 

Two 100% crops from the images that I mentioned in my earlier posting Canon is the 1st one and Leica M8.2 the second. Both are from identical file and image sizes.

 

This is what I am talking about, there is a clear difference and to my eyes. The Leica (yes even the much maligned and still superb M8) is visibly better than a Canon EOS1D Mk1V.

 

This is the level that Leica set the standard at and the new M whilst yes being good does not, (again to me others will differ) visibly have the same edge on the competition.

 

I hope that this is only an initial firmware thing because I WANT to really like this camera and yes I am on record as saying that live view and video are totally irrelevant to me, as they are on pro Nikon bodies that I use - I have NEVER since getting a D3 and D3S some 3years ago used live view - I tried it to shoot over the heads of a crowd at a pop festival and found it just too unwieldily to use and gave it up as a bad job. Image quality is VERY important though and I will gladly choose a humble M8 or M9 before any Nikon and know that either will always deliver the goods. Hope the new M proves that it too can do it

 

Not an attack "counter point" post Paul. Your experiences are valid, but unique to you. Mine, shooting canon and Leica side my side for a few years are that your comparison doesn't match up with my experience at all. That canon shot I would have taken the lens, body, probably both back to the dealer. Either that or it's shown without capture sharpening, which it needs when compared to the Leica as it has an AA filter.

[wok64]

Not an attack "counter point" post Paul. Your experiences are valid, but unique to you. Mine, shooting canon and Leica side my side for a few years are that your comparison doesn't match up with my experience at all. That canon shot I would have taken the lens, body, probably both back to the dealer. Either that or it's shown without capture sharpening, which it needs when compared to the Leica as it has an AA filter.

 

Well, we're looking at 100% crops. I had a similar experience when comparing M8.2 images to side-by-side shots with a Canon 40D a few years ago. I assume the Canon could have profited from some AF calibration. Comparing the output of my current 1Dx to the M8.2 there's no significant difference in terms of crispness. So, you may both be right with your observations.

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[bybrett]

Hi Brett

Actually, the girl and dog is also with the AA 50 at f2 Not sure about the branches, but I was on skis so it's entirely possible that the focus is not perfect.

All the best

 

Ah, I was quoting the data on the web page, interesting how easily the 50 APO wide open can trick the mind into accepting a 135 tag. The girl and dog is a lovely image in it's own right, not only does it show detail and bokeh together but it also conveys the M feeling many are keen to retain.

 

The trees picture doesn't have the bite I would expect from the 50 APO so there's probably some shake in there too. It's not easy to agree to put your work out there for all to bisect so all credit due to you for doing this and dealing with the cause and effect!