iPad supports RAW files [Merged]

[scc]

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36.4 MB uncompressed DNG's take forever to upload on a typical 375 kbps upload broadband speed. I had to send someone 200+ M9 DNG's the other day and it was quicker to post him a load of DVD's.

 

Wilson

 

Yes, thats why I asked about down-scaling. For example if I drop a photo into Mail on my mac, I can specify whether it is sent as original size, large, medium or small, and it takes care of the conversion.

 

Just wondering if the iPad has a similar function?

[Alnitak]

OK, I synced up a bunch of uncompressed DNG's via iTunes, and not only does it display the images very fast, it also almost instantaneously put a 1.1MB jpg into an email and sent it.

 

However...I have a sneaking feeling that what iPhoto and Aperture are doing is actually sending a jpeg to the iPad via iTunes, and not actually sending the full DNG file. I need to dig into this further and see.

 

Jeff

Edited April 7, 2010 by andybarton

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[anupmc]

...

As for Apple, I own an Iphone but it took a lot of iterances to have a product that could "copy/paste" ... talk about bugs ...

 

This is obviously way off topic, but I just had to respond...

Microsoft Windows Phone 7 - No Copy & Paste. Verified

 

...

And remember that the Ipad is not a multi-task device. While ok for a small device as the Iphone, it could rapidly prove very bothering for many users.

 

You might want to hold that thought till Thursday

Apple to introduce iPhone OS 4.0

[Alnitak]

Since it runs on Windows, I guess your software bugs should be addressed to the Microsoft corporation. There is no reason for Lightroom to bug more on an Archos than a PC.

As for Apple, I own an Iphone but it took a lot of iterances to have a product that could "copy/paste" ... talk about bugs ...

And remember that the Ipad is not a multi-task device. While ok for a small device as the Iphone, it could rapidly prove very bothering for many users.

Anyways, I am glad the Ipad exists and believe in this kind of technology of the future. I'll probably buy one at some point too. So everybody wins. Just I am amazed sometimes to see how Apple can appropriate itself innovations just by brand power.

 

Actually, the Windows Archos is one of the few good ones. It's the Linux-based ones that have been terrible, and its nothing to do with the OS, but rather how Archos has customized/implemented it. And it's not just me--a quick search of the web will find that my experience is typical. Archos has good ideas, with poor execution.

 

As someone else pointed out, it's the whole ecosystem that Apple builds that makes their offerings not only compelling, but also highly successful. Easy to use and very reliable, and visually appealing on top of that. Recipe for success.

 

Jeff

[Alnitak]

BTW, the AutoDesk Sketchbook Pro app is a perfect example of what the future of photo editing on the iPad will hopefully look like. It's an incredibly slick and well-done app, and I hope Adobe is taking notice. The UI would be killer for an iPad Photoshop/Lightroom product.

 

Check out the video to see it in action:

 

Jeff

[wlaidlaw]

OK, I synced up a bunch of uncompressed DNG's via iTunes, and not only does it display the images very fast, it also almost instantaneously put a 1.1MB jpg into an email and sent it.

 

However...I have a sneaking feeling that what iPhoto and Aperture are doing is actually sending a jpeg to the iPad via iTunes, and not actually sending the full DNG file. I need to dig into this further and see.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

 

Can you "see" the iPad in Finder?

 

Wilson

[Alnitak]

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No, just like the iPhone, it doesn't have "mass storage" mode, so it won't show up in the finder.

 

Jeff

Edited April 7, 2010 by andybarton

[scc]

Another major annoyance I have with the iPhone. Why oh why couldn't they add this, the old iPods had it!

Edited April 7, 2010 by andybarton

[diogenis]

Im certain, this is gonna get fixed soon with the 4th OS. Not because the iphones demanded it, but because the ipad is out, and the ipad is a convergence between a pc and a phone.

[wlaidlaw]

Another major annoyance I have with the iPhone. Why oh why couldn't they add this, the old iPods had it!

 

I think that the "Classic" iPods still may have. I can certainly set this up on my Generation 5 80GB Classic.

 

However I would not be totally surprised if mass storage was not and never will be available on the iPad. Apple increasingly seems to be becoming a rather arrogant and "closed system" company. If something is not their idea, then by definition it must be a bad idea, a philosophy that comes from the top. I stopped being a OS beta tester, when I felt that things we testers were telling them were either at best, being ignored or we were told we must be wrong because Apple just does not make mistakes. Leopard/Airport not connecting and Snow Leopard/Finder 10810 crashes are just two of the recent examples, where we told Apple there was a major issue but they would not listen. Their arrogance may prove to be their downfall in the end.

 

Wilson

[JonasYip]

However...I have a sneaking feeling that what iPhoto and Aperture are doing is actually sending a jpeg to the iPad via iTunes, and not actually sending the full DNG file. I need to dig into this further and see.

 

I believe this is correct. If you watch while you sync photos through iPhoto/iTunes you'll see a message along the lines of "optimizing photo for iPod/iPhone/iPad". It's probably sending a reduced size jpg more appropriate for the screen resolution.

 

To confirm this, I just tried adding one M9 dng to my iPad, and the total space taken up by photos only increased by 1MB. So really, the iPad is not reading raw files at all in this case... iPhoto is.

 

 

- jonas

[wlaidlaw]

It will be interesting to see what happens when the SD reader attachment arrives. Will it just look at the DNG in the camera and extract a 1MB JPEG from it. Not a lot of use as a DNG media storage device if that is the case.

 

Wilson

Edited April 7, 2010 by andybarton
Unnecessary quote

[rljones]

swamiji,

 

you are correct, the 13" MBP does not come with a 500 GB SSD. I removed the stock and installed the SSD myself.

[sanyasi]

As noted, the iPad does support RAW DNG files. I am not sure I have pinned the issues down yet, but watch for the following behavior:

 

When I start with a DNG file in Lightroom, edit it in Silver Efex Pro or other software in that family, and then convert the file back to DNG in Lightroom, the iPad does not appear to display it.

 

In other cases, the Lightroom edits don't seem to appear when you upload the file to iPad. I noticed this in one case where I had significantly cropped the photo and the original kept appearing. I finally converted it to a jpeg before upload to the iPad, and the photo appeared with the crops.

 

I just haven't had time to develop a workflow that let's me isolate when things don't display and when adjustments aren't reflected.

[sanyasi]

In response to several of the comments and out of curiosity, I called Apple Tech Support. I started with the iPhoto software people, then went to the iPad people, who then checked with the engineers. This is what I was told (I offer no guarantees or warranties).

 

The file that is put on the iPad when you transfer through the iTunes sync is the actually file. So if you opted for a DNG file, the file on the iPad will be the DNG file, not a compressed jpeg.

 

If I understood correctly, when the camera connection kit is released, it will transfer the DNG file, not a compressed jpeg if you are just creating DNG files. I assume if you create a sidecar jpeg file, it also will be transferred.

 

I also was told that you can only delete photos that you put on the iPad through iPhoto through the sync process, but that you can delete photos that you import from the Web or e-mail through the iPad interface without being connected to a computer. I was referred to Page 51 of the iPad online manual, which states:

 

Delete a photo: You can delete photos from the Saved Photos album, which contains

photos you save from email or the web. For photos synced from your computer, you

need to delete the photo from the album on your computer, then sync iPad again.

 

The tech support person then told me that photos imported through the camera (I assume this also includes the card reader device) also can be deleted without the iPad being connected to a computer, which will make the iPad a useful tool in the field. You will follow the same process that you use to delete photos imported through the web.

 

I urged Apple to put out some serious documentation for photographers. The tech support person was a bit frustrated with the lack of documented information.

 

Take all of this with a grain of salt and test it yourself, but things are looking good for those who want to use the iPad as a replacement for Jobo, Epson, and other similar storage/viewing devices. For those who require 2 500gb hard drives and editing capabilities when you travel, the iPad isn't for you, but for some hobbyists, I suspect the iPad will be a useful device that eliminates the need for a laptop when it comes to photos and travel. While I often exceed its storage limit on a two-week vacation, I don't think that will be a binding constraint given the opportunity to delete blurred and other obviously defective or uninteresting photos. As for backup, I bring enough cards that I don't delete until I get home.

[wlaidlaw]

Sanyasi,

 

Many thanks for finding this all out for us who might be interested in an iPad. I am now much more interested that I was earlier in the day. Keep up the good work.

 

Wilson

Edited April 7, 2010 by andybarton
Unnecessary quotation

[Alnitak]

OK, regardless of what someone may have told Sanyasi, I am a skeptic.

 

Tonight I used several file-sharing programs and tried to load DNG file onto the iPad. I managed to get one on the iPad with AirShare, but it won't open. I used the MobileMe iDisk app, and it actually told me that the iPad does not support that file type.

 

I'm convinced that at the moment, the synchronization of files via iTunes is just like the iPhone--its sending a reduced-size jpeg to the device, and not a raw file. Now it remains to be seen how the Camera Connection kit will support raw files, since it says it will on the website.

[sanyasi]

I will have to keep investigating, but my working hypothesis is as follows: I work in LR. What I have noticed is that when I transfer a DNG file, it does not keep the crops. That is the most obvious thing I do to a photo. I suspect that it is keeping none of the LR adjustments, but I don't do lots of post production changes in LR and I use a Ezo monitor for photographic work. The other changes would be harder to detect on the iPad since Apple screens are notoriously bright.

 

My hypothesis makes sense to me the more I think about it. Without your catalogue file, you lose all of your LR adjustments since LR is non-destructive. Because LR and the catalogue are not on the iPad, it would make sense that the LR adjustments to the DNG file are not coming through.

 

As mentioned, but it is happening more consistently, whenever I processed anything o/s of LR and then bring it back into LR, the resulting DNG file will not transfer to the iPad. This has happened with Nik software and HDR software. This requires a conversion to jpeg.

 

For purposes of displaying photos, I now convert everything to Jpeg and transfer them to the iPad.

 

As for transfer times, I use the max quality jpeg files, and it took 38 seconds to transfer 20 photos from my Mac to the iPad.

 

As for the camera connection kit, the only way we will know for sure is to test it. Do you get DNG files onto your computer when you transfer them to the iPad? I am less skeptical than others about this. First, as I reported, this is what Apple told me. I am as skeptical as the next person about first line tech support, but it was clear that this person talked with one of the "engineers." Second, Apple is very familiar with RAW files given Aperture. They also are familiar with photographers. I find it hard to believe that they would be so stupid as to convert your DNGs into jpegs, particularly given the fact that they will be selling a device that claims to transfer RAW files. They would have a riot on their hands if people got jpegs.

 

But we will see.

 

As for speed of display on the iPad: basically instantaneous. As for the Photo software on the iPad. It is based around slide shows. You can show individual photos, by tapping on a bar that runs along the bottom of the screen that has thumbnails of the photos. So far, I haven't figured out how to make the bar of thumbnails bigger. I find it is hard to pick an individual photo without getting the one to the right or left.

[stunsworth]

Why not transfer say 4 gig of DNGs to the iPad and see how much the available space decreases by? If transfers the DNGs as Jpegs then the available space should decrease by a lot less than 4 gig.

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[sanyasi]

Not necessarily. I converted DNG files into jpegs at 100% quality and my file sizes were well over 20mg (these were photos taken with a Canon DSLR and first converted to DNG)