Jump to content

Panasonic in talks to buy Leica from Mr. Kaufmann

petermcwerner

By petermcwerner
in Customer Forum

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 230
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

charlesphoto99

charlesphoto99

Posted
Posted

 

Their problem is surely cameras. The new world of sensors, electronics and software is not their stock-in-trade and that's where they need help. That's where Panasonic could bring something to the party.

 

Not sure why Leica didn't team up with Panasonic on the M8 to begin with in at least a silent partnership for Panasonic to do the internals. Hiring the Japanese to do the electronics or even having it made/partially made in Japan would probably have saved them a lot of grief. Screw the "Made in Wetzlar" only snobs and put out a camera that works when it needs to work. I paid $5K for a Nikon D3 and it's been golden from day one and of course it's made in Japan, most likely on a dreaded assembly line. I would certainly pay $5K for an M made in Japan as long as I was guaranteed it had the same QC my Nikon does. I love my M8 but it's been back to the hospital one too many times.

 

I also think Zeiss lenses are made with very high quality. I think those who dispute that have never used one. My iPhone was assembled in China (along with my Mac desktop and laptop). These are technological wonders and for the most part have been extremely reliable and get used heavily. Why there's mystique about German manufacturing being better I don't know. Design, yes, but assembly is another thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
sdai

sdai

Posted
Posted

You guys need to go to Sendai and see for yourselves how a D3 is put together ... the total compensation to the young ladies (many of them are just high school graduates) who hand build these technical wonders are probably not more than 1/3 of what Dr. Kaufmann is paying to his employees in Solms. If they move the production to China, cut (at least) another 50% from the labor costs, more if it's built in Thailand.

Link to post
Share on other sites
wildlightphoto

wildlightphoto

Posted
Posted
Not sure why Leica didn't team up with Panasonic on the M8 to begin with in at least a silent partnership for Panasonic to do the internals. Hiring the Japanese to do the electronics or even having it made/partially made in Japan would probably have saved them a lot of grief. Screw the "Made in Wetzlar" only snobs

 

"Made in Wetzlar" (or Solms) isn't snobbery, it's vertical integration. Leica has had far less trouble getting their own electronic design in the S2 to work properly than the outsourced electronics and software of the M8 and DMR.

Link to post
Share on other sites
StS

StS

Posted
Posted
No offense Andy and im not usually a Leica basher, but I have heard of three different people getting faulty(not working at all like they should) brand new 50 lux asph´s from the dealer. That shouldnt occur when they are hand crafted and hand checked by people in white coats. I do love Leica glass though ;)

 

Mine is fine.

Link to post
Share on other sites
J Mitchum

J Mitchum

Posted
Posted

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I would have just assumed that under Panasonic ownership the M8, R10, etc. and their successors would continue to be "Made in Germany" since they command a price premium anyway. Everything else (including the two models that were said to fit between the D-Lux 4 and M8 whatever they happen to be) would be made in Japan.

 

All I want is a full frame M9 and a true successor to the Digilux 2. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
sdai

sdai

Posted
Posted

Now I found it ... it's in the 1st half year's report for 08/09 fiscal year.

 

Net sale: 52 mil. Euros

Cost of Material: 22.9 Mil.Euros

Cost of Personnel: 21.744 Mil. Euros

Other operational expenses: 17.2 Mil. Euros.

Group Net Loss: 7.171 million Euros (in which 7.144 is on Dr. Kaufmann's tab, the minority share holders swallowed 27000 Euros.)

 

R&D expenditure is merely 8.982 Mil Euros, 17.26% of its net sales, 41.3% of its labor costs, and 23.1% of labor and operational costs combined.

Link to post
Share on other sites
sdai

sdai

Posted
Posted
9m Euro = "merely"? Sounds like a decent amount for a small company. What proportion of Apple turnover is in R&D?

 

Something like half the workforce at Solms are in R&D

 

Thanks to the slow business, now I've some time to search the Nikon numbers on R&D for you. How much it that?

 

In 2008, they've spent 582.6 million dollars, converting into Euros based on today's rate that's 453 million Euros, 50 times of Leica's spending on R&D.

 

It's hard to calculate Canon's spending on camera R&D because they have a larger chunk of other businesses but you've got the idea.

 

Leica's operation mode funded by private capital will not work well facing competition.

 

Any way, my point was Leica's operational costs are too high.

Link to post
Share on other sites
sdai

sdai

Posted
Posted
But, what is Nikon's turnover?

 

The percentage won't make much sense, Nikon is spending 50 times on R&D than what Leica is spending, the results already can be seen.

 

If Leica becomes a subsidiary of Panasonic, their R/D expenditure could easily double, triple, quadruple ...

 

I understand that Dr. Kaufmann may have tried his best but I'm afraid the result may not be what he is expecting to see.

 

I repeat, Dr. Kaufmann has my utmost respect and admiration, I just don't believe the result may be the best for him or for us.

 

I love buying Leica stuff, and I want the company survive, I want the brand and the quality it represents survive. You guys see me bashing Nikon whenever possible, I've made many friends in that company, and my primary personal email is nikon something ... likewise, I love Leica but I hate seeing what's happening.

Link to post
Share on other sites
PeterP

PeterP

Posted
Posted
"Made in Wetzlar" (or Solms) isn't snobbery, it's vertical integration. Leica has had far less trouble getting their own electronic design in the S2 to work properly than the outsourced electronics and software of the M8 and DMR.

 

Perfectly unfounded statement . Since the S2 has not even been released there is not basis for this claim.

"Vertical integration" - ?????????????????

Link to post
Share on other sites
mhoersch

mhoersch

Posted
Posted
"Made in Wetzlar" (or Solms) isn't snobbery, it's vertical integration. Leica has had far less trouble getting their own electronic design in the S2 to work properly than the outsourced electronics and software of the M8 and DMR.

 

Shall we wait till it comes out and see if and how well it works? So far, nothing of what Leica showed off at Photokina has made it to the market yet.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...