Images from Panasonic L-Mount cameras

[thighslapper]

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10 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Hi W124 (and others), 

Any thoughts on how the M lenses fare on the S1R? The photo above is attractive, but does not say much about the performance across the field at longer distances etc...is there vignetting or blur towards the edges? I am quite curious about that....as well as to hear if the S lenses work.

I posted shots of the 21/3.4 and apo 50/2 here for you to view in LR .....

Panasonic DNG's: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1h4m2liexwmy9i5/AAChASGId81PNQo0r5E6pABsa?dl=0

[W124]

It is without AA filter, so a bit cleaner than the original. M10 is miles ahead! Completely different look and of course you have the objective corrections automatically

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[Jon Warwick]

45 minutes ago, W124 said:

It is without AA filter, so a bit cleaner than the original. M10 is miles ahead! Completely different look and of course you have the objective corrections automatically

Thanks for posting some images. It doesn’t surprise me that the wide angle M lenses perform better on an M10 than on the S1.....but do you think the difference is much less with longer lenses (like your M 75mm) on the S1? Thanks for any insight.

[thighslapper]

3 hours ago, verwackelt said:

OK, when showing a good image with that filter i think you are right. it should be within the range and should meter right values.
I am curious if that is only the behavior of your camera or if others will report similar things.
And what Panasonic will say…

There was a lot of head scratching at the Panasonic stand and even those who have been using it for a while were puzzled. It was the same on a different body, and with the native zoom instead of my 24-90. Unfortunately the real tech guys from Japan were not there today. Only one guy has used it extensively with filters .... and through habit from DSLR days he still sets focus/meters without the filter, then adds it and adjusts exposure by calculation. 

Having done some more testing I am certain I am just pushing it beyond the metering capabilities of the camera. Any time the screen is dimmer than the subject the metering is unreliable and tends to underexpose. Having said that, in A mode the histogram is correct .... but the metering below is out by 2.5 stops which is very odd. Anything beyond 30 secs flashes red in A mode ... presumably indicating something.... I will have to see what the manual says ....  In M mode metering carries on to the 60 sec limit with no warnings. I have tried experimenting again tonight and I feel the dodgy metering still occurs with equivalent low light levels without filters, so they just expose the problem, rather than being the cause of it.  

Whatever ..... if the metering functions ..... at whatever light levels ..... it should either return the correct result, or if incapable of doing so warn the user .....

[W124]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Jon Warwick:

Thanks for posting some images. It doesn’t surprise me that the wide angle M lenses perform better on an M10 than on the S1.....but do you think the difference is much less with longer lenses (like your M 75mm) on the S1? Thanks for any insight.

Sorry, it was the SL 75mm not the M.

[ron777]

It is interesting to note that none of the S1/S1R reviewers have made mention of metering errors.  An extensive Internet search has, with the exception of the above posts,, failed to reveal the notation of similar problems.

I am not attempting to detract from the poster's findings, but wonder if the alleged metering issue would be noticeable, or problematic under normal shooting conditions, as there are numerous photos on the Net that demonstrate the camera's apparent, more than acceptable performance  in low light situations?

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by ron777

[relms]

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Maybe it's too early to cancel my order for the S1R, but based on what I am reading here, I am leaning in that direction - keep my powder dry and wait for the SL2.  If nothing else, the issues with metering when using ND filters is a deal killer for me.

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by relms

[thighslapper]

21 hours ago, relms said:

Maybe it's too early to cancel my order for the S1R, but based on what I am reading here, I am leaning in that direction - keep my powder dry and wait for the SL2.  If nothing else, the issues with metering when using ND filters is a deal killer for me.

 

Rob .....

It's only at the very low light levels encountered using high ND's that there seems to be a problem ..... and 95% of the time with ND's there will be no trouble.... always assuming my findings are correct, that is..... 

There is an easy workaround pending clarification ....... if what you see on the screen is what you are looking at then all will work fine ...... if the screen/evf is dimmer than expected you are into territory where there is an issue ..... if you change to Aperture priority (if in Manual) and dial in enough exp. compensation to bring the view brightness up to what you would expect you will correct any underexposure completely. 

A 10 stop ND + Polariser will cause the above in overcast daylight conditions, and 6 stop ND + polariser in the sort of illumination levels that you would get indoors in average artificial lighting.... so I suspect the conditions required to cause problems will be fairly rare..... and only where you are after exposures in the order of several minutes.... bearing in mind for landscape use you will probably be using f11 or thereabouts and base ISO. 

It appears to be consistent ...... and if it does prove to be a genuine fault I would be confident a firmware correction would fix it.

I wouldn't discount it just based on my unsubstantiated findings and opinion. It is a fine camera with a lot going for it .... and does plenty of things the SL can't with image quality that is as good and with higher resolution.

Ps. with regards to Ron77's comment about no other reports ..... I only found this whilst trying to see what the effect of turning on/off LENR was using a 2 minute exposure. This meant using a 6 stop ND + polariser in a dimly lit church to generate the required time ...... and I became very confused by the results which were underexposed.  I doubt if anyone else has been daft enough to use ND filters indoors .... 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by thighslapper

[Stuart Richardson]

A ten stop filter and a polariser is 12 stops of light loss...if my count of fingers can be trusted, that is the difference between ISO 100 and 409,600 (if this is the exact number). I think it is not unreasonable to expect that the camera might not perform properly under those conditions, especially when not in bright daylight. 

[ZHNL]

I agree, Leica S007 has the exact same behavior. So is D810. D850 improved upon 810, but still can't get exposure preview correct under such extreme condition, Z7 might be slightly better than D850 but I am not sure, never did A/B test. I am surprised to hear SL can make it.  

Simple solution is open up aperture to focus and frame. I believe most people in manual mode anyway with 10 stop ND shooting. I was really hoping S1/S1R can take WA M glasses to perform upto SL level and maybe even take S glasses. Too bad it is not happening. 

[relms]

Thighslapper,

Thank you for the clarification.  I can live with the limited quirks you described to get the higher resolution for printing large (48" X 60") landscape images on canvas.  I don't make it a practice of returning equipment I purchase, but here in the US, the three big shops - Amazon, Adorama, B&H, and perhaps others - have a no-hassle 30-day return policy; therefore, if the camera falls short of my expectations, I would always have that option.

I feel somewhat like I am cheating on my wife to fondle a camera that isn't a Leica, but I hear the siren call.

[Jon Warwick]

4 hours ago, relms said:

Thank you for the clarification.  I can live with the limited quirks you described to get the higher resolution for printing large (48" X 60") landscape images on canvas.

The “high resolution mode” on the S1R looks incredible for large prints. There are decent samples now on the internet showing examples with/without the two high resolution modes, and I find the difference looks very compelling ....ie, the high resolution mode seems to produce more final detail, whilst eliminating moire and other weird digital artefacts from the Bayer filter, and (importantly IMHO) gets rid of the “blur” from the Bayer filter too.

[Chaemono]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb relms:

I feel somewhat like I am cheating on my wife to fondle a camera that isn't a Leica, but I hear the siren call.

You would only have a serious issue if it felt like cheating on your wife every time you fondled any camera.

[hillavoider]

12 hours ago, thighslapper said:

Ps. with regards to Ron77's comment about no other reports ..... I only found this whilst trying to see what the effect of turning on/off LENR was using a 2 minute exposure. This meant using a 6 stop ND + polariser in a dimly lit church to generate the required time ...... and I became very confused by the results which were underexposed.  I doubt if anyone else has been daft enough to use ND filters indoors .... 

 

 

 

wouldn't be surprised if this "daft" experiment showed up a genuine fault - hopefully fixed with a firmware upgrade - well done thighslapper

[relms]

5 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

The “high resolution mode” on the S1R looks incredible for large prints. There are decent samples now on the internet showing examples with/without the two high resolution modes, and I find the difference looks very compelling ....ie, the high resolution mode seems to produce more final detail, whilst eliminating moire and other weird digital artefacts from the Bayer filter, and (importantly IMHO) gets rid of the “blur” from the Bayer filter too.

Thanks, Jon.  That's what I am hoping for; cannot wait to try it.

[jonoslack]

12 hours ago, relms said:

Thighslapper,

Thank you for the clarification.  I can live with the limited quirks you described to get the higher resolution for printing large (48" X 60") landscape images on canvas.

I would have thought that if you're printing on canvas then 24mp would be fine for 48 x 60?

[thighslapper]

27 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

I would have thought that if you're printing on canvas then 24mp would be fine for 48 x 60?

yes...... but you know what photographers are like ...... we all end up at reading distance playing a game of 'wheres wally ?' rather than normal people who view at sensible distances .... 

anyway, my compositional skills can be rather wayward so I often end up cropping quite significantly ......  the extra headroom of 47mpx will come in handy.

For landscape photography the extra Hi-Res option is rather limited by the 1 second exposure maximum though .....

Edited March 20, 2019 by thighslapper

[relms]

3 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I would have thought that if you're printing on canvas then 24mp would be fine for 48 x 60?

You are right, Jono, I do get very good output on canvas from the 24mp SL or M10, but I can definitely see a difference between those images and those taken with the 37.5mp S007.    It will be interesting to see how the images from the 48.3mp full frame sensor, with and without the Hi-res option, compare to those from the S007.

[Jon Warwick]

Is there a rule of thumb for how the different focal lengths of M lenses tend to work on 3rd party cameras (like Sony mirrorless or Nikon Zs) that could give an idea of how they might work on the Panasonic S1(R)?

Specifically I am wondering if my M 75mm Summarit could work just as well (ie, without edge smearing or colour cast) as it does on M bodies? 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jon Warwick

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43 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

Is there a rule of thumb for how the different focal lengths of M lenses tend to work on 3rd party cameras (like Sony mirrorless or Nikon Zs) that could give an idea of how they might work on the Panasonic S1(R)?

Specifically I am wondering if my M 75mm Summarit could work just as well (ie, without edge smearing or colour cast) as it does on M bodies? 

Generally, 50mm and longer M-lenses work fine on most non-Leica bodies/sensors. I would be quite confident (almost sure, actually...) that the 75mm Summarit-M work fine on the S1R.