Leica SL or Panasonic S1R?

[helged]

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9 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

Having just experienced the “system error” problem with one of my SL2 bodies I’m seriously considering getting a used S1r body as a back up and maybe even moving across to Pana bodies wholesale if I like it. I’ve never really enjoyed using M lenses on the SL2 (why??) so wouldn’t miss that feature.

QUESTION. In 2023 given the concerns I have over the SL2 and with a lovely set of SL glass (35 / 75 APO + 24-90 / 90-280) what would I be losing (other than a worry about hitting a critical failure during a paid shoot!)?  I like the UX of the Leica interface, but I know I could get my head round the S1r’s knobs and buttons. And a used mint S1r body can be had for under £1500! 

Another thumbs up for S1R. I used one body extensively before getting the SL2. Image quality wise, even colour wise, the two bodies are very close. The S1R can be programmed mimicking the SL2, so although extensive with menu options, things can be simplified and streamlined.

In retrospect, I think there is a difference wrt the EVF: Leica use a quite complex optical system/high quality glass for the EVF (claimed to correspond to a 800+ EURO lens in itself), whereas Panasonic uses some less 'advanced' optics. I dont have the two bodies any more, so I can't do a side-by-side comparison, but I think you will notice a difference. Using the S1R EVF was fine with me, no problem, but the SL2 EVF looks slightly less screen-like.

The last point can be tested in a shop, etc. If acceptable, I would have no reservations to use the S1R as a back-up, or as the main working machine. The cost difference is clearly an advantage to S1R.

In case you go for the S1R, check out the many instructions videos available on the US Panasonic/Lumix web page - these are really grat! (and something Laica could/should do as well...). 

[chris_tribble]

9 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

 

I had my 2x S1R bodies before the SL2 was announced and have taken them all over the world with no issues. But once I got my SL2 I did find I preferred it to the S1R despite the S1R being more featured..

@FlashGordonPhotography - thanks for the response. I’d be really grateful if you could expand a bit on what led to the preference?  Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the performance of the SL lenses on the SR1r? Any constraints / advantages? What happens with Len’s firmware updates if you don’t have an SL? Can these be carried out on an L mount alliance body?

Again, thanks to all for contributions… I have time on my hands as I wait for news of my SL2 that’s now on its way from Leica UK to Solms… 🫤 They say three weeks just to get a diagnosis…

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[chris_tribble]

PS - I’ve just posted this on an older thread re SL lens updating on S body…

Does anyone have experience?

Edited October 22, 2023 by chris_tribble

[Ivar B]

3 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

@FlashGordonPhotography - thanks for the response. I’d be really grateful if you could expand a bit on what led to the preference?  Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the performance of the SL lenses on the SR1r? Any constraints / advantages? What happens with Len’s firmware updates if you don’t have an SL? Can these be carried out on an L mount alliance body?

Again, thanks to all for contributions… I have time on my hands as I wait for news of my SL2 that’s now on its way from Leica UK to Solms… 🫤 They say three weeks just to get a diagnosis…

The SL lenses perform perfectly on the S1R. I own the APO 35/50/75 and the 24-90. It has been pointed out by many that the Leica SL2/SL2S bodies enable even higher sharpness than the S1R, but as has also been pointed out by several, it is hard to see in practice. I don`t exactly know how the firmware updates perform now. I own some Sigma lenses as well and there are absolutely no problems updating firmware, but I have not tested out updating Leica lenses for a while as I believe there have been no updates. I would be very surprised if this should be an issue, but as I said I have not tested recently. I am happy with my S1R. The SL bodies are more elegant but performance wise the S1R more or less matches the SL2, and at a much lower cost. Here in Norway I see that there are several used SL/SL2/SL2S bodies for sale. Some users report having migrated to Sony, and many are I guess waiting for the SL3. I guess that Panasonic will also deliver new S1 models with the much improved auto focus system now available in the S5 MK II. 

[BernardC]

14 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

Having just experienced the “system error” problem with one of my SL2 bodies I’m seriously considering getting a used S1r body as a back up and maybe even moving across to Pana bodies wholesale

what would I be losing?

The lowest-risk strategy always involves spreading  risk across different hardware. That's true in your case, but it's also "rocket science."

In other words, your best bet is to have two different cameras, not two copies of the same camera.

[chris_tribble]

8 hours ago, BernardC said:

 

In other words, your best bet is to have two different cameras, not two copies of the same camera.

Hmm. An interesting perspective and now possible with L Mount. However, in my Canon days I always had two matched bodies and the same with M when I was using this as my main money system.  A back up, yes. That’s just a necessary insurance. Two different bodies, however, makes it harder to segue between focal lengths in a complex shoot. 

Still. Lots of mulling going on at the moment. I’ve always felt that the SL2 was bombproof. My confidence has now taken a serious knock. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by chris_tribble

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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13 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

@FlashGordonPhotography - thanks for the response. I’d be really grateful if you could expand a bit on what led to the preference?  Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the performance of the SL lenses on the SR1r? Any constraints / advantages? What happens with Len’s firmware updates if you don’t have an SL? Can these be carried out on an L mount alliance body?

Again, thanks to all for contributions… I have time on my hands as I wait for news of my SL2 that’s now on its way from Leica UK to Solms… 🫤 They say three weeks just to get a diagnosis…

Firmware updates are as per a Leica body. No issues there. The opposite is also true. Any L mount lens on an SL2.

The reason I *prefer* the SL2 is basically just a few tiny things. I like the grip just a tiny bit better. I appreciate the few grams in saved weight. I prefer the Leica menus.

Subtle. Very subtle. The IQ is a given so it's just which camera feels better in the hand generally.

Gordon

[chris_tribble]

10 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Firmware updates are as per a Leica body. No issues there. The opposite is also true. Any L mount lens on an SL2.

The reason I *prefer* the SL2 is basically just a few tiny things. I like the grip just a tiny bit better. I appreciate the few grams in saved weight. I prefer the Leica menus.

Subtle. Very subtle. The IQ is a given so it's just which camera feels better in the hand generally.

Gordon

Many thanks for the clarification.  Really helpful. 👍

[chris_tribble]

Well… picked up a mint S1r from MBP for £1500. A better back up than a used SL2 for £3249 from the same source, I think. The proof of the pudding will, as ever, be in the eating…  I’ll report back once I’ve got it set up (🤓) and tested it on SL and M lenses.

Many thanks input from list members. 🙏 

Edited October 23, 2023 by chris_tribble

[chris_tribble]

The camera is now with me and I quite like it. I’ve commented elsewhere on a minor issue and a first impression…

 

[da_eltsch]

Here in Germany new Panasonic S1R bodies or Kits can be head as a steal. I have just bought one for the same price as "used mint" bodies cost right now. So I hit the buy button and now have a second body with full guarantee.

It does everything I need at the moment - for the fast stuff I have a used S5II - my focus is on the available glas which is just great for the L-Mount: Panasonic and Leica really add to the Sigma lenses also available for the other mounts.

I have my SL for sale: as though there is kind of mixed feelings on letting go. But that is about the touch and aesthetics.

Having seen the SL3 almost exactly matching the feature rumors I am quite convinced there is going to be nothing in an S1R II that makes me wish to upgrade: I have just returned from Sony A7R V and A9 back to L-Mount. While that 61 MP chip is great in lots of ways: it just doesn't add something for me.

 

[jaapv]

The S1R2 will have the same PDAF that the S5-2 has making it a much more agile camera and the IBIS will be improved even further. 

[Don Morley]

On 1/29/2020 at 6:46 PM, thighslapper said:

I have had/have and concurrently used the S1R, SL and SL2.

If I was told I could keep only one,  rather sadly for Leica it would be the S1R.

The obvious advantages over the SL are IBIS and 47mpx, which until you have experienced both you think you could manage without and after using them wonder how you did.

Dynamic range on the S1R appears to be as good or better than the SL and SL2, uplifted shadows are clean and the higher ISO performance is also only marginally affected by the increased resolution. As you have remarkably good stabilisation any differences become lost as you can use much lower ISO's anyway.

All the controls and buttons are very well laid out and once you configure the assignable Fn buttons you will hardly ever have to look at a menu. the C1-3 customisable modes allow the fixing of almost ANY menu option, including many submenu items, so I have them set as my own versions of A, S and M ... and if I change anything just a click of the dial and back again resets to my default choices. I have bracketing set so a flick of a Fn switch on the front activates and deactivates it in any mode. On a press of the Q button I have the available aspect ratios with the image shown and can just scroll though and choose what is best. AF shows a magnified central section of the image to confirm focus if needed. AF, AFc and MF are flip of a switch and the different modes a touch of a button. Back Button Focussing works the way it should do, unlike on the SL/SL2 where it causes issues with non Leica lenses. You can lock and unlock the touchscreen with a switch on the back. It's definitely well weather sealed as I dropped mine in Blea Tarn and it worked fine after. Flashes work as they should do. 3rd party remote wireless releases etc. work fine. Battery life is very good (unlike the SL2 which is crap) and you can charge it direct with a USB-C cable or connect a powerpack. There is an excellent articulated screen and buttons can be illuminated for night use. EVF is slightly better than the SL and has 3 settings to allow full view of the screen when using specs. Has a default touchscreen status menu like the SL2 so you can change most things quickly with that if you are button averse. OOC JPG's on the S1R are superb ... you could easily just rely on these and never bother with any RAW processing. The increased resolution over the SL is remarkable when viewed on a high res screen such a 5k iMac and the leeway it gives in cropping is very useful. TL lenses give you 20mpx  images ..... virtually SL level if you want to travel very light. The Firmware appears bombproof .... there have been no hangups, glitches or major issues requiring updates ..... just some minor changes that have improved performance. You can turn LENR off ..... although when you see the results in images with a lot of dark areas you will probably switch it back on .....

Downsides ..... 60 seconds exposure .... longer and you need to use a timed release. Bulkier (but no heavier) than the SL/SL2. Menus are well laid out and sensible but the possible options and permutations can be bewildering. It took me 2 weeks to get the camera set up as I wanted it ..... but I haven't changed it since. One SD card (cheap) and one XQD card (ridiculously expensive) slot. Loads of buttons, dials and switches, although you can avoid most if you wish. Doesn't look as nice as the SL/SL2 and you don't have a Red Dot. The SL/SL2 metering extends further in low light than the S1R which just stops at 60 secs so you have to do some mental arithmetic to guesstimate exposure in very low light and use B. 

I spent a week this month in the Lake District with both the S1R and SL2. I used the S1R 90% of the time. Image quality is identical. OOC colour is possibly a little bit more natural on the SL/SL2. I don't think you could tell SL2 and S1R images apart.

I'd try both for a while. I had no regrets on selling my SL. It got very little usage after I configured the S1R to how I wanted it to work. I do however have some niggling doubts about buying an SL2. If the forthcoming firmware upgrades don't look like they will address some of the things I dislike I may cash it in and get a second S1R and put the spare cash towards another lens. Can I really justify it as a second body just because of the odd time I want to do multi minute long exposures and are too lazy to dig out my remote release ? Time will tell. 

After trying and absolutely loathing an A7R because of the awful menus and fiddly buttons I thought I would have misgivings about the S1R, but Panasonic have produced a very ergonomic and usable camera. It may be an ugly duckling, but I have grown very fond of it and it consistently produces super images with little fuss and bother. 

Thank you for such a well reasond, detailed and unbiased reply very much appreciated.. Don Morley