m10-r Utterly confused: used M10 or M10-R?

[yanidel]

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I dread the day I will have to upgrade from my 24mpx M10. I once had an exhibit with 20 1x1.5 meters prints, many from the M8, they were great. 

Since then rhe largest I have printed is A3+. I don't need more pixel, they just slow down my PC and forces me to store terabytes of crap. 

[aamwgm]

16 hours ago, yanidel said:

I dread the day I will have to upgrade from my 24mpx M10. I once had an exhibit with 20 1x1.5 meters prints, many from the M8, they were great. 

Since then rhe largest I have printed is A3+. I don't need more pixel, they just slow down my PC and forces me to store terabytes of crap. 

And cost more money 🙂

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[Smudgerer]

Happy to note that the M10-P I bought to act as a "reserve" for the M10-R, (  the M10-R has gone to Leica for warranty work and will probably be away for some months ), has arrived and I'm happy to have it. Could be way wrong and despite my M10-R needing attention I believe that the M10 series are the best and most reliable digital M's so far as the 11 and most likely subsequent M models become more electronic and in my view over-complicated.

[aamwgm]

2 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Happy to note that the M10-P I bought to act as a "reserve" for the M10-R, (  the M10-R has gone to Leica for warranty work and will probably be away for some months ), has arrived and I'm happy to have it. Could be way wrong and despite my M10-R needing attention I believe that the M10 series are the best and most reliable digital M's so far as the 11 and most likely subsequent M models become more electronic and in my view over-complicated.

I've heard the same. But I have heard about the freezing issues in the M10-P, but not in the M10.

What was the last "serious glitch free" M digital camera (and I'd think freezing up is a serious glitch that can make us miss shots)?

[Smudgerer]

3 hours ago, aamwgm said:

I've heard the same. But I have heard about the freezing issues in the M10-P, but not in the M10.

What was the last "serious glitch free" M digital camera (and I'd think freezing up is a serious glitch that can make us miss shots)?

Hello aamwgm.....I've never had a freeze with any of my M10's, ( M10, M10-P, M10-M, M10-D and the M10-R ). The M10 I sold in a trade a few years ago for the M10-R but have kept the others. The M10-M is a solid B&W camera maybe the best there is but then I've never tried the M11-M nor do I feel the need to given the M10-M's output, the M10-D I like for it's quirkiness despite it's under-development and basic "abandonment / still-birth" by Leica, the M10-R is there should I need the higher mp but truly that's been a very rare occasion like when I want to crop and then print to A1 or A0, the recently re-purchased M10-P at 24mp is in my view the ideal sensor size for a digital M. The M10-R's sensor does have a slightly different "look" compared to the other M10's but for me it's nothing radical and nothing that cannot be easily be "levelled out" if the R is used with the other 10's.

I have no reason or desire to go to the M11 or even whatever comes afterwards, I'm sticking with the 10's. I feel that the M line is going too "electronic" despite some decent innovations like the larger battery, but it's looking likely that the next M's may well be "shutterless" and that along with the possibility of a EVF M are steps too far for me and Leica has yet to demonstrate that it can produce bullet-proof firmware/software for their increasingly firmware dependent M cameras.

M10's battery life has never been an issue for me, I probably do not take more than 50 shots on an outing with any of the M10's, I generally keep them turned on with a 2 minute "sleep", I don't chimp or use an EVF though probably would carry an extra battery "just in case". I've never had a SD card problem either, using mainly Sandisk Extreme or Ultra and generally 32mb, sometimes 64mb if on a trip but never anything greater than 64mb. In short I have found the M10 series to be very reliable, never missed a shot due to camera malfunction but missed several myself by not paying enough attention to what's happening around the scenes I wish to capture!

[graphlex]

My M10-d has been entirely glitch-free, as was my M240. 

Edited January 15 by graphlex

[gordec]

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If you were to give me a M11 straight up for a M10R, I would take it in a heart beat. I played with the M11 at Camera West in the Bay Area. The operation is super fast with Maestro III. I can use the better battery life, on board memory and USB charging. However, I don’t need more than 40MP, so I would be shooting the M11 at 36mp all the time. Some argue the files coming out the M10R has better colors. Then you are just paying $1500-$2000 more (if buy used)  for better processor, battery life and USB charging.

Going from M10 to M10R is more straightforward decision. Do you want 40MP or not. Nothing else really is significant. No one cares about touch screen. 

Edited January 16 by gordec

[hepcat]

2 hours ago, gordec said:

Going from M10 to M10R is more straightforward decision. Do you want 40MP or not. Nothing else really is significant. No one cares about touch screen. 

That's quite a broad brush. I bought the M10-P over the M10 both for the more quiet shutter and the touch screen.  So there's at least ONE buyer out here who cares about the touch screen.  But you're correct in that the 40mp holds no interest for me.

Edited January 16 by hepcat

[aamwgm]

16 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Hello aamwgm.....I've never had a freeze with any of my M10's, ( M10, M10-P, M10-M, M10-D and the M10-R ). The M10 I sold in a trade a few years ago for the M10-R but have kept the others. The M10-M is a solid B&W camera maybe the best there is but then I've never tried the M11-M nor do I feel the need to given the M10-M's output, the M10-D I like for it's quirkiness despite it's under-development and basic "abandonment / still-birth" by Leica, the M10-R is there should I need the higher mp but truly that's been a very rare occasion like when I want to crop and then print to A1 or A0, the recently re-purchased M10-P at 24mp is in my view the ideal sensor size for a digital M. The M10-R's sensor does have a slightly different "look" compared to the other M10's but for me it's nothing radical and nothing that cannot be easily be "levelled out" if the R is used with the other 10's.

I have no reason or desire to go to the M11 or even whatever comes afterwards, I'm sticking with the 10's. I feel that the M line is going too "electronic" despite some decent innovations like the larger battery, but it's looking likely that the next M's may well be "shutterless" and that along with the possibility of a EVF M are steps too far for me and Leica has yet to demonstrate that it can produce bullet-proof firmware/software for their increasingly firmware dependent M cameras.

M10's battery life has never been an issue for me, I probably do not take more than 50 shots on an outing with any of the M10's, I generally keep them turned on with a 2 minute "sleep", I don't chimp or use an EVF though probably would carry an extra battery "just in case". I've never had a SD card problem either, using mainly Sandisk Extreme or Ultra and generally 32mb, sometimes 64mb if on a trip but never anything greater than 64mb. In short I have found the M10 series to be very reliable, never missed a shot due to camera malfunction but missed several myself by not paying enough attention to what's happening around the scenes I wish to capture!

I was in touch with a seller of an M10-R, but I was too late in meeting him to try the camera. I also didn't really need to, since I was pretty happy with the M10: the only thing that seems to be bothering me are the highlights, and this camera is tough to tame in that respect. Shooting underexposed does take some joy out of the experience too, since when you look at the screen all you see is a dark image, there's not much to see. But its not a compromise one cannot live with, and it also only happens in high contrast environments. I've heard that the M10-R has vastly better highlight recovery and you don't need to underexpose as much, but oh well, we'll see for the next camera (the seller I was in touch with has sold the camera to someone else in the meantime, but there are always more available: ebay etc.)

Another idea could be to just embrace blown highlights and keep them under check: let the highlights blow up but not in crazy amounts. I think that's also a compromise one can live with. Or just try to expose correctly, stop down the lens, there are many ways around it.

I think all these compromises put together have made me learn more about photography in a couple of weeks than my Fuji did in a couple of years. That is good ROI to me.

 

[gordec]

12 hours ago, hepcat said:

That's quite a broad brush. I bought the M10-P over the M10 both for the more quiet shutter and the touch screen.  So there's at least ONE buyer out here who cares about the touch screen.  But you're correct in that the 40mp holds no interest for me.

I also like the quieter shutter and touchscreen, but looking at the forums, most wouldn't upgrade from 10 to 10P for those reasons alone. The price of 10P and 10R is pretty close now on the used market in the US, I went to the 10R. 10R just seems like the fully  refined 10. M10 series has the most pleasant raw color profiles I have seen in any digital. 😅

[Smudgerer]

6 hours ago, aamwgm said:

I was in touch with a seller of an M10-R, but I was too late in meeting him to try the camera. I also didn't really need to, since I was pretty happy with the M10: the only thing that seems to be bothering me are the highlights, and this camera is tough to tame in that respect. Shooting underexposed does take some joy out of the experience too, since when you look at the screen all you see is a dark image, there's not much to see. But its not a compromise one cannot live with, and it also only happens in high contrast environments. I've heard that the M10-R has vastly better highlight recovery and you don't need to underexpose as much, but oh well, we'll see for the next camera (the seller I was in touch with has sold the camera to someone else in the meantime, but there are always more available: ebay etc.)

Another idea could be to just embrace blown highlights and keep them under check: let the highlights blow up but not in crazy amounts. I think that's also a compromise one can live with. Or just try to expose correctly, stop down the lens, there are many ways around it.

I think all these compromises put together have made me learn more about photography in a couple of weeks than my Fuji did in a couple of years. That is good ROI to me.

 

I personally haven't found a great deal of difference between how the M10/M10-P and the M10-R handles highlights, sure the R is better in some regards but to my mind if the M10/M10-P is used well it's not a big deal. With all of the M10's I have I've dialed in a -0.3 exposure compensation in my User Profile and that takes care of most highlight problems. In some high highlight situations you may want to go one more step of underexposure, but -0.3 does the trick most of the time. Trying to judge exposure by looking at the LCD screen too often can be counterproductive, try to learn "by eye" when you need to use the minus value on the exposures and how much. The real judge of whether you've nailed the right exposure for any scene is obviously when you import it into your PP Application choice not necessarily by chimping...........Go shoot in a number of situations as a test trying different exposure compensations and review the results in PP, you'll get the idea soon enough..........At least you're shooting digital and not wasting film in experimentation!