My new M11 is bricked... Leica Spain

[jplomley]

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On 8/11/2022 at 8:27 PM, toona said:

Sadly I’m on a photo centric trip in the Canadian Rockies and my m11 died just before heading to lake Louise.  Kudos to Josh at leica Miami for fielding my desperate calls for help from jasper Canada and confirming my m11 is dead. I’d rather know so I can focus on keeping my iPhone charged. 
 

I’d be lying if I wasn’t supremely disappointed. 
it’s a once in a lifetime trip that took 2 years to plan. I will make the most of it but I will reevaluate my long term relationship with leica equipment. 
 

fwiw it stopped working randomly. Fully charged battery, sandisk extreme pro sd card that has hundreds of photos uneventfully shot, firmware was the one prior to the newest and I couldn’t get the new one to load. 
 

camera turns on, screen is dead, red light stays on even when powered off. Shutter opens and I think I can take photos but the camera otherwise is totally unresponsive. 
 

Taken with my iPhone today. Taking lemons and making lemonade…
 

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You seriously take trips of this magnitude without a back-up? I’m quite surprised to be honest. Why not carry a beater M240 ?

[toona]

17 hours ago, jplomley said:

You seriously take trips of this magnitude without a back-up? I’m quite surprised to be honest. Why not carry a beater M240 ?

I had a canon mark iv, GoPro and iPhone Pro 13max all as backups. But it was disappointing to have a m11 failure.  I traded my “beater” m bodies when I bought the m11 erroneously thinking it would be the most reliable m to date. 
 

[oka]

2 hours ago, toona said:

I had a canon mark iv, GoPro and iPhone Pro 13max all as backups. But it was disappointing to have a m11 failure.  I traded my “beater” m bodies when I bought the m11 erroneously thinking it would be the most reliable m to date. 
 

I think many has false assumption that Leica won't break as it's so expensive. They do break as other brands or as any other electronic equipment.

[LocalHero1953]

20 hours ago, jplomley said:

You seriously take trips of this magnitude without a back-up? I’m quite surprised to be honest. Why not carry a beater M240 ?

He had a backup, and took a great photo with it.

[GDS63]

Same problem for me, which I reported here:

Before the M11 I had an M9, which I had to have the sensor replaced (like many M9s).  Before that, I had an M6 TTL which never gave me any problems.  I understand that digital cameras are increasingly dependent on electronics and software, but I am frankly very annoyed that I spent 8500 EUR and had to send the camera right away to service.  Not what I expect from Leica.

[lct]

You should be entitled to ask for a refund or a replacement subject to the law of your country.

[GDS63]

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Maybe yes, even if Rome Leica Store did non mention such options. I don’t want a refund and I’m not sure that a new camera will not show the same problem, so better to have the issue fixed. But I’m disappointed with Leica and didn’t expect it.

[SrMi]

15 minutes ago, GDS63 said:

Maybe yes, even if Rome Leica Store did non mention such options. I don’t want a refund and I’m not sure that a new camera will not show the same problem, so better to have the issue fixed. But I’m disappointed with Leica and didn’t expect it.

A broken camera or lens, especially new, can occur. I would never buy from a dealer or an eBay merchant that does not accept refunds of broken items. No brand is a guarantee that a new article delivered is not broken.

[GDS63]

25 minutes ago, SrMi said:

A broken camera or lens, especially new, can occur. I would never buy from a dealer or an eBay merchant that does not accept refunds of broken items. No brand is a guarantee that a new article delivered is not broken.

Correct. But this problem seems to be quite recurrent.  It's not a single camera fault.

[Ba Erv]

1 hour ago, GDS63 said:

Maybe yes, even if Rome Leica Store did non mention such options. I don’t want a refund and I’m not sure that a new camera will not show the same problem, so better to have the issue fixed. But I’m disappointed with Leica and didn’t expect it.

The Rome store offers a 14 days return policy that should allow you to receive a replacement instead of waiting 2 months for repair.  

[jakontil]

4 hours ago, Ba Erv said:

The Rome store offers a 14 days return policy that should allow you to receive a replacement instead of waiting 2 months for repair.  

Sometimes the problem develop after the return window

[Ba Erv]

47 minutes ago, jakontil said:

Sometimes the problem develop after the return window

Yeah I get that. GDS63 stated elsewhere he notified the Rome store a few days after the problem occurred.  Ergo, my brief response about their return policy. So, this specific incidence wasn’t one of those “sometimes”.

[GDS63]

3 hours ago, Ba Erv said:

Yeah I get that. GDS63 stated elsewhere he notified the Rome store a few days after the problem occurred.  Ergo, my brief response about their return policy. So, this specific incidence wasn’t one of those “sometimes”.

Thanks for all your suggestions. In Italy there is no right to return the goods if the purchase was made in the store. You have this right within 14 days for online purchases. In any case, the Leica Store only offered the repair, of course for free.

 

[Ba Erv]

1 hour ago, GDS63 said:

Thanks for all your suggestions. In Italy there is no right to return the goods if the purchase was made in the store. You have this right within 14 days for online purchases. In any case, the Leica Store only offered the repair, of course for free.

 

Apparently, they make exceptions for me. I’ve purchased cameras in the store and they accepted the return without question.

[Guest]

Just surmising here, but it does seems to me that perhaps Leica bit off more than it can chew with the digitization of the M. They are still a relatively small camera manufacturing company and as such they are deeply dependent on outside, much larger, companies in the world to produce the electronic "innards" of their cameras, also as a primarily EU based firm they have much more costly overheads that companies in the Far East don't, all of which adds to the cost. Many bemoan the cost of entering the "Leica-verse ", and gripe about the amount they pay for what is basically a hand-built camera made in a country that has much higher standards of social care and public amenities to pay for than even it's great ally across the Pond, all of which has it's price and of course that effects the cost of purchasing the product............I think the Leica M's are priced right for where they come from, how they are designed and made and for the support that they do require, but yes they are still bloody expensive if you compare a Leica feature to feature with other marques.

Leica does not seem to have the deeper base of software development that perhaps other camera companies have built up over a longer period of time, Leica essentially started from ground zero with the M8 from many decades of analogue film camera production and I think that their camera software development has suffered even to this day. Updates and "patches" are rarely dealt with in a timely fashion if at all, ( M10-D ! ), and the ever increasingly electronically complicated cameras like the current M11 tend to be quite buggy from day one, not so much so with their Far Eastern competitors. Every one of my digital Leica's have had problems rooted in software that should have worked out from the get-go, none of my Panasonic or Nikons have suffered any software related hiccups, nor mechanical hiccups either, but I still come back for more Leica experience because it is unique and when they are working well there's no equal. Having said that though with the M series I am stopping at the M10-R and M10-M, the direction that the M11 is veering off to is making the camera too complicated and way too dependent on electronics for my taste. As good as the camera is purported to be, ( when it's working well ), it is for me, stepping too far away from it's roots whereby the photographer's experience and input was the prime motivator. But a thank you to those who are buying in to the new versions as they are unveiled every 4 (ish ) years or so, you are helping to keep Leica ticking away and that's all good............ 

[SrMi]

8 hours ago, Ba Erv said:

Apparently, they make exceptions for me. I’ve purchased cameras in the store and they accepted the return without question.

@GDS63 wrote in another thread that he purchased the camera from another dealer, not from the Leica store. IMO, that other dealer should have handled the repair and/or replacement. At least, that is what my Leica dealer is doing (Camera West, Walnut Creek).

[GDS63]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

@GDS63 wrote in another thread that he purchased the camera from another dealer, not from the Leica store. IMO, that other dealer should have handled the repair and/or replacement. At least, that is what my Leica dealer is doing (Camera West, Walnut Creek).

I asked to my dealer but he adressed me to Leica Store for service.

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by GDS63

[lct]

Replacement or refund should be due by the seller not the Leica store legally but i don't know Italian law unfortunately. Now you said above that you preferred the lens to be repaired if i'm not wrong. Not my advice personally but the owner is always right . Service will take more time but you know this already. 

[Ba Erv]

8 hours ago, SrMi said:

@GDS63 wrote in another thread that he purchased the camera from another dealer, not from the Leica store. IMO, that other dealer should have handled the repair and/or replacement. At least, that is what my Leica dealer is doing (Camera West, Walnut Creek).

I must’ve missed that one.  It sounded like the purchase was from the Leica Store Rome. I agree, I don’t understand why the dealer would’ve punted him to the Leica Store.  The dealer could’ve just called Wetzlar himself to arrange the repair or request a replacement. But, that sort of thing isn’t uncommon in Italy.

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[jakontil]

8 minutes ago, Ba Erv said:

I must’ve missed that one.  It sounded like the purchase was from the Leica Store Rome. I agree, I don’t understand why the dealer would’ve punted him to the Leica Store.  The dealer could’ve just called Wetzlar himself to arrange the repair or request a replacement. But, that sort of thing isn’t uncommon in Italy.

Yeah very common here too, hence i always try to avoid dealing after sale service, hoping i dont need them