Summilux 50 pre asph

[albertospa]

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I would now have the opportunity to purchase a pre aspheric M Summilux 50 (E46). I now own the Summilux 50 E43. I would like to switch to have a minimum focusing distance of 70cm. I know they are the same optically, but I have many doubts about the mechanical quality of the new lens. In addition, the focus ring has a much smaller rotation angle and this could possibly adversely affect the accuracy of the focus. I am very interested in your opinions on this matter, surely you have already talked about it.
  Thanks

[a.noctilux]

My favorite lenses.

I used to own the "asph." version, nice lens but lack of characters and Ninja Stars high light spots were a "no-no" lens, so sold.

As you wrote the differences are something individual needing one's own experiences.

I use them for so long time that these are "transparent" for me.

At first, the long travel of older design (E43) was "too long" after using the E46 for a while.

I happily use three (two E46, one E43) 😉

 

No-free-lunch 😉

here from the two side by side,

we can see the precision required comparing the two dof scales

from the french brochure presenting the new E46 Summilux-M 50mm

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Edited May 10, 2022 by a.noctilux

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[evikne]

I have only owned the E46 version, so I can't compare with the E43, but I like the short focus throw. I have heard others say that the longer focus throw is both faster and more accurate though. I guess it's just a matter of taste. 

I have nothing to complain about the mechanical quality, but sometimes I think the ribbed focus ring doesn't give an optimal grip. I wish it had a scalloped focus ring like the E43, or the 11623 Black Paint version.

[lct]

Free translation of the French brochure referred to by @a.noctilux above:

« The new SUMMILUX-M 1:1.4/50 mm high aperture lens resembles the new LEICA M lenses presented at the recent photokina 1994. Like these lenses, it is equipped with a built-in, extendable lens hood for easy handling. The size of the lens hood was chosen on the one hand because it provides optimum protection against stray light and, on the other hand, because partial obstruction of the viewfinder is thus reduced to a minimum.
In addition to this improvement, which makes the lens more practical, there is a newly designed helical ramp, which reduces the close focusing distance to 0.7 m compared to the previous model (l m). In addition, this ramp reduces the minimum field of view to 277 x 416 mm for close-up shots (reproduction ratio 1:11.5).
The LEICA SUMMILUX-M 1:1.4/50 mm is a standard lens for the M system with a 45° angle of view and a very high aperture. It is suitable for many areas of photography, especially for natural perspective shots (as seen by the naked eye) as well as for shots in difficult light conditions that require a very high aperture. 
Since its introduction in 1959, the optics of the SUMMILUX-M 1:1.4/50 mm have been recalculated several times, leading to the development of a modern standard lens with a very high aperture, consisting of 7 lenses, 2 of which are joined together. Thanks to a special lens coating process developed by Leica, the colour rendering capability of the lens has been adapted to that of other Leica M lenses, thus ensuring colour neutrality in photography.
In the special conditions of low-light photography, where sharpness and detail are important, the SUMMILUX-M 1:1.4/50 mm has an excellent overall performance already at full aperture, which can be further enhanced when the aperture is reduced slightly. 
In addition, the lens is distinguished by its excellent ability to correct coma effects and astigmatic residual errors, its low tendency to flare and its accurate colour differentiation. Vignetting, which is typical of all optical systems, becomes evident especially at low exposures and can be reduced with a small aperture.
From aperture 4 onwards the vignetting disappears. However, when the SUMMILUX-M 1:1.4/50 mm has to ensure the highest performance at close focus, it is no longer completely free of field curvature aberration. In critical situations it is therefore recommended to reduce the aperture to a medium aperture.
With the introduction of the SUMMILUX-M 1:1.4/50 mm in its new version, Leica has further developed its range of modern standard lenses, each of which combines proven optical calculation and high mechanical precision with practical improvements and a modern design. »

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[lct]

I own both v2 (11114 black) and v3 (11856 silver) Summilux 50/1.4 lenses. They are similar but not the same optically according to Leica who wrote me this in 2017:

« The LEICA SUMMILUX M 1.4/50 lens (code 11868) was launched approx. 1994 on photokina in Cologne. The first deliveries have been made beginning of 1995. This lens in question was the third generation of this SUMMILUX lens and was totally redesigned, optical and mechanical. E.g. The close-up focus was now 70 cm. and it had an telescopic lens hood.  The lens was discontinued approx. 2004 »

Main differences are indeed 0.7m MFD and built-in hood but focus throw of the new lens is indeed shorter. Did not cause any focusing problem since i bought my v3 20+ years ago. See v3's technical data below:

LeicaM_5014_11868_tech_ge_opt.pdf

[albertospa]

Thanks. Very interesting. 

[adan]

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I have used both the E46 and E43

I saw no consistent optical difference in the range 1m-infinity.

I neither saw or felt any difference in build-quality. It will no doubt feel "different" - but not "worse" by any objective standard. Crisp and solid. It is possible the slide-out lens hood may feel a bit looser or tighter on any given copy, just through normal sample variation. Mine was fine, though.

It is probable that the E46, being younger in age, has a small increase in clarity and contrast. Both from updated lens coatings - and simply the fact that it will have had less time to "grow old" and develop haze (or collect internal dust).

But a mild warning.

Using the E46, it is clear why Leica limited this lens to 1m focusing for 30 years - and why its Summilux-ASPH replacement added a floating element that adjusts the optical formula when focusing near and far.

The E46-pre-ASPH image - at f/1.4 to f/2.8 - gets increasingly dreamy and glowy closer than 1m. The optical mathematics of bending light rays, optimized for longer distances, just no longer hold up well at close distances. The optical aberrations increase (mostly spherical aberration, possibly some coma).

It is not horrible - in fact it probably is very useful for some photography. But I think Leitz/Leica simply felt that the performance below 1m and at wide apertures was, shall we say, a bit embarrassing for their "signature" lens, so they made it impossible to focus in that range prior to the E46.

(Of note - the legendary 180mm f/3.4 APO-Telyt-R was similarly limited to 2.5 m, for the same reason. The performance just decayed noticably at closer distances (I tried one once with an extension tube - all the specialness at f/3.4 disappeared).

Nevertheless, if ...I... were buying a pre-ASPH 50 Summilux, I would choose the E46 version, both for the close-focus ability (the quality of which is excellent at medium and small apertures) and for the newer mounting flange, which permits 6-bit coding to be added, if desired.

Edited May 11, 2022 by adan

[albertospa]

Thanks for the excellent considerations.
What could be a fair price to pay to make the switch?
They asked me for 500 euros.
It is also true that the right price is what I am willing to spend for it! !😃

[adan]

4 hours ago, albertospa said:

What could be a fair price to pay to make the switch?
They asked me for 500 euros.

Sound OK to me - but when it comes to lenses, and I know what I want, sometimes I am a bit of a spendthrift.