Survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

[luigi bertolotti]

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My M240 has turned 8 years... but even if my goal was 10, and there's no reason it cannnot reach it in perfect shape as is, I confess to be tempted, and not for GAS : there are some details I think I'll appreciate really and practically :

- Extended ISO, both at low and high end

- The new EVF : wait for further feedbacks, but as a frequent long focals user it's surely a step-up over mine, and don't dislike its style.

- The new battery

- The USB direct connection (together with the above feature, it's one of the improvements I'd surely will enjoy)

- I frankly don't care so much about 60 vs. 24 MP... but I'm curios to have feedbacks about the "digital zoom" in practice... does it really provide something "better" than a trivial crop at DNG level ?  I think that if Leica has clearly declared it in the specs maybe there must be a reason for ; or is it just for precision in framing ? From Jono's review seems to be like this (DNG stores the uncropped 60 MP frame)

- I noticed they don't provide sensor cleaning... 🤥... I wonder if the not removable base and the better sealing will provide some improvement on a marginal but annoying detail... 

So... my initial thought was a chance around 30% to decide to buy. at the moment, it has increased... leaning towards 50%. As for my usual mood, no hurry... 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by luigi bertolotti

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[rjans]

On 1/14/2022 at 5:13 AM, rivi1969 said:

Not at all. My M8 and M9P are my rangefinder fix (for life), I don't even see a need to “side-grade” to an M10.

If I would spend top money on a camera, it would be an SL2. 

+1 although I only have the M8. 

[simonr]

I'm happy with my M10p, but if they had been able to find a way of making the rangefinder patch somehow more critically accurate with all lenses when focusing close, i'd seriously consider one.

[cheekz4dayz]

I belong in the "other" category. I'm in the:  "I'll probably buy one eventually" camp but due to limited funds for "fun" annually. I've decided to dedicate my '22 entertainment funds to adding a hi-fi system to my home. Probably by the time I can afford the M11 and apo 35 the M11-P would be out. Since I'm perfectly fine with my SL2 and Q2 and lens options I think I'll sit on the sidelines for now and wait till I can responsibly buy the M11 and apo35 ☺️

 

Yes, I know there are a zillion M combos that would be cheaper for me to enter the M system, but I suck at selling things and I prefer to just wait for what I actually want than compromise 🙃😅

[adan]

On 1/16/2022 at 1:40 PM, adan said:

I saw someone ordering an M11 at our little local shop just yesterday.....I have to stop in tomorrow anyway, so I will ask them what delivery time-frame Leica quoted the store for his order.

Mission accomplished.

The store told me their Leica sales rep told them that any M11s ordered after the announcement (Jan. 13) could take 6-8 MONTHS to be delivered - in his region. That is how full his back-order book is, compared to expected delivery rates.

Not sure which Leica region of the US includes the Denver area, these days. I believe Leica USA reorganized their map in 2017 sometime.

YMMV.

Edited January 17, 2022 by adan

[M Journey]

29 minutes ago, adan said:

Mission accomplished.

The store told me their Leica sales rep told them that any M11s ordered after the announcement (Jan. 13) could take 6-8 MONTHS to be delivered - in his region. That is how full his back-order book is, compared to expected delivery rates.

Not sure which Leica region of the US includes the Denver area, these days. I believe Leica USA reorganized their map in 2017 sometime.

YMMV.

Wow that is a long wait time.  From forum posts, some people are looking to receive their m11 a week or two after announcement, having placed their orders after announcement.  I suggest getting on the list at as many resellers as possible that don’t require a deposit.  I think actual Leica stores are also getting stock in faster than other resellers.

[Jeff S]

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42 minutes ago, adan said:

Mission accomplished.

The store told me their Leica sales rep told them that any M11s ordered after the announcement (Jan. 13) could take 6-8 MONTHS to be delivered - in his region. That is how full his back-order book is, compared to expected delivery rates.

Not sure which Leica region of the US includes the Denver area, these days. I believe Leica USA reorganized their map in 2017 sometime.

YMMV.

You may be content to wait and/or want to support your local business.  But if not, I suspect that you can find one much sooner by calling smaller dealers around the country.  I found an M10 in one day, back when many here were reporting similarly long wait lists.

Jeff

[adan]

4 minutes ago, M Journey said:

Wow that is a long wait time.

Not completely out of line with the M9 deliveries, for example. I believe there was some people still waiting for theirs 6 months (March 2010) after the intro on 9/9/09. I had pre-ordered mine 6 weeks before the announcement, as "Whatever is being announced on 9/9/09! Whatever it is! Any color!" and got it in the first week.

And immediately got an offer from a forum member to buy it from me for $1000 over sticker price (I politely said thanks but no - I wanted to use it)!

As I've mentioned before, Leica has tended - in the past, at least - to be even-handed about camera distribution, when introducing a new version.

If the USA gets, say, 50 in the first weekly shipment, those will be divided equally among all the Leica USA regions (say, 5 each to the 10 sales regions - if that is what Leica still has in the US.). The regional reps will then distribute those 5 to their first 5 dealers/stores in order-date precedence (1 per dealer). And the dealers will call the first person on their list to tell them their camera is in (or on the way). So 5 people per region may receive their camera in the first week or so.

Rinse and repeat weekly until the shipments catch up with all the outstanding orders, and increasingly fast as production ramps up.

And multiply that across all the global sales regions: Rest of NA, Asia, EU/UK, Oceania, Africa (or parts thereof), SA (or parts thereof).

Jeff S is quite correct that some dealers may have ordered an M11 "on spec" to have on their shelf - without any customers already in line. So they may have their "first one" available for sale, with no waiting customer, if one tracks them down. I'm not in that much of a rush, especially since I am still on the fence - may wait for a hypothetical M11-S that can do ISO 100,000. (The M11 is brilliant - but may be aimed at a different type of photographer - we'll see).

I'm not sure how Leica's own Stores have been fitted into that model - there are more of them now (in the USA) than in 2009 for the M9.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I spoke to the Boston store. and the story that is going around (not completely sure of this) is that they had 18 units on the first day and sold them all.

[goodbokeh]

On 1/15/2022 at 6:25 PM, Chaemono said:

It’s not a big issue. The M11 comes with the same well dampened shutter as the M10-P (shutter sound comparisons https://youtu.be/0FSV9Jp3Xbo), M shooters hardly ever use long focal lengths, and the reviewers mostly agree that the camera needs to be shot at shutter speeds 2f (depending on one’s technique) to avoid camera shake.

Note that Jim Kasson does the shutter shock test on the Z7 with a 125 mm lens. https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/shutter-shock-and-the-nikon-z7/ I shot the Z7 with M lenses and shutter shock was never an issue.

An excerpt below:

https://photographylife.com/what-is-electronic-front-curtain-shutter

However, don’t be too scared of it, since it is not something you will see in every image, as shutter shock only happens under particular conditions, such as the following:

At particular shutter speeds relative to the focal length of the lens. The typical danger zone is 1/2 to 1/50th of a second for most lenses.

When using long focal length lenses (telephoto and supertelephoto) and relatively slow shutter speeds (typically below reciprocal rule values).

When using a camera with an undamped / loud shutter mechanism.

So if your camera has a damped shutter mechanism and you are using relatively fast shutter speeds or very slow shutter speeds longer than 1 second, you should be able to avoid shutter shock in your images.

Chaemono, did you not fully read Kasson's test? The Nikon Z7 fully mechanical shutter was a disaster: "Don’t use the Z7 mechanical shutter unless you want shutter speeds faster than 1/2000." I need real tests from authoritative sources, Leica itself or a trusted source like Jim Kasson on the M11's mechanical shutter showing shutter shock is absent. Short of that the M11 will need to have a firmware upgrade to incorporate EFCS for me to purchase it. Posts here denying M11 mechanical shutter shock exists will not cut the mustard, not even close.

[SrMi]

30 minutes ago, goodbokeh said:

Chaemono, did you not fully read Kasson's test? The Nikon Z7 fully mechanical shutter was a disaster: "Don’t use the Z7 mechanical shutter unless you want shutter speeds faster than 1/2000." I need real tests from authoritative sources, Leica itself or a trusted source like Jim Kasson on the M11's mechanical shutter showing shutter shock is absent. Short of that the M11 will need to have a firmware upgrade to incorporate EFCS for me to purchase it. Posts here denying M11 mechanical shutter shock exists will not cut the mustard, not even close.

I doubt that Jim will get an M11, so you have to do with my measurements.

M11 on a tripod, focus using EVF, 50mm and 135mm lens, 12-sec delay. I tested mechanical vs. electronic shutter at 1/60 sec and evaluated the images using 200% view in LrC. There is no difference in acuity.

There is no shutter shock effect visible with M11.

I hope someone can confirm my tests.

Edited January 18, 2022 by SrMi

[goodbokeh]

33 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I doubt that Jim will get an M11, so you have to do with my measurements.

M11 on a tripod, focus using EVF, 50mm and 135mm lens, 12-sec delay. I tested mechanical vs. electronic shutter at 1/60 sec and evaluated the images using 200% view in LrC. There is no difference in acuity.

There is no shutter shock effect visible with M11.

I hope someone can confirm my tests.

SrMi for your own peace of mind and to properly test the mechanical shutter shock harmonics of your M11 you should be running the shutter speeds up to 1/1000. Why not drop Jim a line and see if he would be interested in testing your M11. He would likely hook it up to his oscilloscope also. I'm sure he would be very careful with your equipment.

[davidvanchu]

If you need an oscilloscope to determine if shutter shock is an issue, then it’s not an issue.

[SrMi]

33 minutes ago, goodbokeh said:

SrMi for your own peace of mind and to properly test the mechanical shutter shock harmonics of your M11 you should be running the shutter speeds up to 1/1000. Why not drop Jim a line and see if he would be interested in testing your M11. He would likely hook it up to his oscilloscope also. I'm sure he would be very careful with your equipment.

Yes, that would be the proper way to measure. Jim does not live far from me, but it is unlikely that I will bother him.
I was trying to replicate Jim's experiment (1/50 sec and CV 125/2.5). He shows a clear shutter shock effect with 1:1 crops. M11 with 1/60 sec and 135mm lens, 1:1 crops, does not show any issues. 
The shutter shock happens at speeds of 1/25 to 1/200 sec. I also tested at 1/125 and saw no issues.
I have shot many images at 1/60 to 1/250 and have never seen any unsharpness that could indicate shutter shock.
M11's shutter may be clunkier, but it seems to be really well designed :).

[archiea]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:00 AM, LUF Admin said:

Quick poll right after the announcement:

Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

 

On 1/13/2022 at 6:00 AM, LUF Admin said:

I have a 50 summilux and a 28 summicron that I use on a fuji... I think its inevitable that I land at least a film leica! 

On 1/13/2022 at 6:00 AM, LUF Admin said:

And:

What would most appeal to you about the Leica M11?

Theres a lot.....

1) 18mp... yes.... 18mp... before this I was sl2s-curious because I wanted a lower MP/low noise camera... I live at 6400 iso.  Plus for my shooting style I will live more at 18mp than the rest....

2) 3 resolution output.   18, 36 and 60?   If IQ is unaffected by the pixel binning, beyond resolution, this is three cameras in one. 

3) quality if life feature of having a stabilized view for manual focusing.   Only camera that does the BECAUSE its a manual focus camera!  Now if for the MP they introduce some phase detection pixels that would give you a DIGITAL focus patch.... TAKE MY MONEY!!!!

4)Modernization of bottom plate with a bigger battery

5) modernization fo the USB -c cable for data AND charging...   now its a modern street camera! 

6) inclusion of an apple lighting cable and certification as an apple accessory for ios.   Again, quality fo life b/c no WIFI failure point AND it modernizes the street camera.

7) maestro 3 offering a performance and the lower resolution thats unmatched by previous M's

8. waiting for the sl2's 5 million pixel evf... got the 3.68 million pixel evf instead. 

9). Because we have 5 years of up and coming limited editions that will erode away any will power thats left!!! 

..and then comes the monochrom....

...Harvesting my organs while we speak....  

 

[archiea]

On 1/13/2022 at 2:47 PM, SrMi said:

I like the new packaging better. It is nice that the Lightning cable is also included.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Note: Only Quick Start Guide is included.

call me silly but I rather liked the boxes the M6 came in....  ohhh red velvet....

new box looks like it came from the service department...  "here's your camera...."

 

[archiea]

On 1/14/2022 at 1:13 AM, mfiorentino said:

I tend to agree. Loosing the bottom plate cover is another step towards removing the uniqueness of the M series. Look at this beauty:

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It has been a war camera (although not while being with me) and has taken some beatings in its lifetime. It is built like a tank. This spells out "reliability". No-nonsense, stripped-down, high-quality, sturdiness are some of the keywords I have come to associate the M series with. I can't see the M11 being in the hands of a war-photographer or photojournalist…

most of us will never see combat, so....

[archiea]

On 1/14/2022 at 6:39 AM, SiOnara said:

Same.  My M10D is my perfect digital M.  The M11D would be even more perfect! (if it still has the build in thumb rest)

...and a usb-c port!!

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[mfiorentino]

1 hour ago, archiea said:

most of us will never see combat, so....

Well, no. But that is not my point here. My point being Leica moving away from some fundamental design philosophies with the M. The black M11 is not even made of brass… Anyway…

[Chaemono]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb goodbokeh:

Chaemono, did you not fully read Kasson's test? The Nikon Z7 fully mechanical shutter was a disaster: "Don’t use the Z7 mechanical shutter unless you want shutter speeds faster than 1/2000." I need real tests from authoritative sources, Leica itself or a trusted source like Jim Kasson on the M11's mechanical shutter showing shutter shock is absent. Short of that the M11 will need to have a firmware upgrade to incorporate EFCS for me to purchase it. Posts here denying M11 mechanical shutter shock exists will not cut the mustard, not even close.

I did. He is using a long focal length only, 125 mm.