Survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

[bramcq]

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I'm curious how I'll fare selling my M10-R while waiting for my M11.  Posting here and on the Facebook group -- eBay is daunting!

Don't worry for me, my M10 Mono is enough company while I wait!

[Torontoamateur]

To me it is now just another soon to be obsolete digital camera. Nothing special really. I have a 24MP Leica . It does the work I need.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Guest Nowhereman]

3 hours ago, zwieback said:

... it surprised me. When I arrived at the shop, I was confirmed that no appointment was required, I was expecting quite a few people already waiting in the shop...I would have expected much higher interest of the community after the release of the camera...

I would assume that the current Covid/Omicron situation could be a factor. Perhaps many potential M11 buyers are putting it off because they haven't been using their current camera much and don't know when we'll be back to normal. I haven't shot with my M10 since October...
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[Stevejack]

2 hours ago, adan said:

BTW - it occurs to me that with the increasing number of Asian M-mount lenses being sold (I plead guilty - 2 C/V f/1.4 lenses in my stable), Leica may have decided their camera bodies can no longer reliably be priced as "loss-leaders" (well, more or less) to promote lens sales.

They really are in a tough spot with the rangefinder aren't they - there isn't a lot they can improve model by model.  Other manufacturers can make generational leaps with their autofocus speed and subject tracking, EVF quality, burst rate and weather sealing... But Leica can't really offer any of that in a way that would be attractive to a large portion of the M user base. 

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, adan said:

I saw someone ordering an M11 at our little local shop just yesterday. Trading in a huge stack of Nikon lenses, including a 500 f/4 and such - plus his 4-month-old M10-R (he was also taking delivery of a Canon R of some kind, and likely some Canon lenses).

I have to stop in tomorrow anyway, so I will ask them what delivery time-frame Leica quoted the store for his order. I may end up with an M11 sooner than I thought.

I do recognize there is a huge "sticker-shock" factor here, for those of us who haven't bought a new M in a few years.

My M10s (as I think I already mentioned) were both less than $7000 new, 4-5 years ago.

But since an M10-R (black chrome, not paint) or M10-M are listed for the same price as the M11 at B&H, that "inflation" has been in place for a while.

..................

BTW - it occurs to me that with the increasing number of Asian M-mount lenses being sold (I plead guilty - 2 C/V f/1.4 lenses in my stable), Leica may have decided their camera bodies can no longer reliably be priced as "loss-leaders" (well, more or less) to promote lens sales.

They need to charge enough for M camera bodies to make a profit and cover development costs, even if folks buy only the camera, and then load it up with used Leica lenses, Voigtlanders, TTArtisans/7Artisans, and so on.

 

 

M10 was launched in 2017 for $6495. That would be $7400 today.

Edited January 17, 2022 by SrMi
Corrected year.

[Jeff S]

10 minutes ago, SrMi said:

M10 was launched in 1997 for $6495. That would be more than $11k today.

https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1997?amount=6495

M10 launched in 2017.

Jeff

[thomasstellwag]

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was too late, deleted

Edited January 17, 2022 by thomasstellwag

[relms]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:18 AM, jplomley said:

Will be sticking with my M10-R, M10M and SL2. My next bit of dosh will be going to either a 24 or 21 APO L lens (if they ever manage to get it out the door)

Not a bad set of tools.

[IkarusJohn]

Hmm, I paid NZD 11,860 for my silver chrome Monochrom in 2013, and NZD 13,500 for my M10-D in 2018.  The M11 is NZD 15,250, which is NZD 250 less than the M10-R.

I seem to recall I paid NZD 12,000 or so for the M9 and 35 Summicron ASPH - I think the M9 was about NZD 9,500 in 2010.

If I am to be in the market for the M11-P, or M11-M, or M11-D, or maybe even M11EVF, I will need to sell some stuff off; but the prices don’t really seem that out of kilter with prior pricing - eye watering, yes.  Surprising?  No.

[adan]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

M10 was launched in 2017 for $6495. That would be $7400 today.

Probably. Maybe even $7500 (different calculator).

Seems like after 2-3 years of annual Leica price hikes, it was already pretty close to that, even then.

What was the list price of the M10 (plain vanilla) when the M10-R replaced it? Or the last M10-P?

(actually - dpreview's last listed price for the regular M10 is $7995 - I don't know if that is accurate, though)

OTOH - to get the 60 megapickles of the M11, one would have to buy 2.5 M10(vanillas) and bolt and sync them together somehow - and get 3 matched lenses.

Doesn't the classic theory of market economies tell us that the "correct price" for anything is - what people will pay for it?

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[SrMi]

9 minutes ago, adan said:

Doesn't the classic theory of market economies tell us that the "correct price" for anything is - what people will pay for it?

 

Don't tell Leica that :)!

[adan]

I think Leitz/Leica has known that (with a few lapses) since 1925.

[Jeff S]

In the US, most Leica product prices were increased by roughly 10% to spread the effect of the 25% tariff on German lenses during the last Administration. 
 

Jeff

[Ba Erv]

9 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

In the US, most Leica product prices were increased by roughly 10% to spread the effect of the 25% tariff on German lenses during the last Administration. 
 

Jeff

Those tariffs were lifted in March 2021 yet Leica raised their prices on April 1.  Moreover, US retailers had already increased prices on German optical imports to reflect the tariff increase.  Even after the tariffs were rescinded retailers did not return to previous pricing and Leica added the aforementioned increase.  The result was a win for Leica and retailers…not so much for consumers.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ba Erv

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

On 1/15/2022 at 11:32 AM, pgk said:

By offering a cheaper version - as all other makers do. Tried and tested. Cheaper body (with 'lower' specifications), same lenses and lots of upgrade potential.

They tried that in the 70's with the CL and the M5.  The CL sold well and they think in hindsight it stole sales from the M5.  Just something to consider ... 

[Jeff S]

7 minutes ago, Ba Erv said:

Those tariffs were lifted in March 2021 yet Leica raised their prices on April 1.  

The increase related to tariffs came in January, 2020.. 

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2019/12/leica-price-increase-coming-jan-1-2020/

The 2021 increases were prompted for other unspecified reasons, possibly exchange rates or supply issues.

The tariffs were suspended for four months in March last year, but I never read more about them after that.

In any case, Leica M product line prices have soared since the M10 launch, well beyond any tariff explanation, but I thought it should be mentioned.

Jeff

[Ba Erv]

14 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The increase related to tariffs came in January, 2020.. 

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2019/12/leica-price-increase-coming-jan-1-2020/

The 2021 increases were prompted for other unspecified reasons, possibly exchange rates or supply issues.

The tariffs were suspended for four months in March last year, but I never read more about them after that.

In any case, Leica M product line prices have soared since the M10 launch, well beyond any tariff explanation, but I thought it should be mentioned.

Jeff

This isn’t really the venue to discuss the matter nor my knowledge of the particulars.  Suffice to say, Leica didn’t get hurt over the WTO decision but consumers sure got bent over.

[Jeff S]

Hence my last paragraph.

Leica customers were offered some of the same lenses at lesser costs from Portugal to avoid the German tariff. So not all bad.

Jeff

Edited January 17, 2022 by Jeff S

[adan]

26 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The tariffs were suspended for four months in March last year, but I never read more about them after that

Suspended further for 5 years as of June 15, 2021, while the US and EU "discuss" the airliner trade dispute further.

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Anyway, here's a little "happy" tid-bit for all M photographers - whether they want the M11 or not. Did you know that the M body proportions are almost a perfect match to the Golden Rectangle, with side proportions of 1.618:1?

Le Corbusier, eat your heart out!

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Jeff S]

Another reason why an external EVF doesn’t belong.

Jeff