Survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

[ynp]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

8 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Best to just add a few more pushups to your exercise regime. And it's free! 

Have enough of exercise carrying my S3 and Rollei 6008 😉

[Photoworks]

40 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Which M10 type (except M10M) give me the best 6400 iso performance?

M10-R is good at 6400ISO

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Stevejack]

4 hours ago, Dennis said:

P.s. If I want to use soon and exclusively use the M system for professional work, I know I need another body soon. I found a super deal for an M10P/R? Or is it wise to embrace the new M11 ? 🤔

The hard part about the previous M cameras and professional work, is that you had no backup with only the single card slot. The M11 isn't that much better, you have the internal drive with is fine but the only way to really keep a backup is to set the camera to use the internal drive as your primary and use the SD card as your backup. That means connecting the camera to a computer to download the images off the internal drive before you can wipe it and start again. This may or may not be an issue on assignment depending on how many images you're likely to take in a day. 

I don't think you can as easily make the case to upgrade to the M11 if you already have say an M10R which you would need to sell, but if you're looking to buy an additional body (especially with the aim to use it professionally) then the M11 would be a wise choice I think. 

 

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, Stevejack said:

The hard part about the previous M cameras and professional work, is that you had no backup with only the single card slot. The M11 isn't that much better, you have the internal drive with is fine but the only way to really keep a backup is to set the camera to use the internal drive as your primary and use the SD card as your backup. That means connecting the camera to a computer to download the images off the internal drive before you can wipe it and start again. This may or may not be an issue on assignment depending on how many images you're likely to take in a day. 

I don't think you can as easily make the case to upgrade to the M11 if you already have say an M10R which you would need to sell, but if you're looking to buy an additional body (especially with the aim to use it professionally) then the M11 would be a wise choice I think. 

 

You can transfer the images from the internal (backup) card to an external card while downloading images from the original SD card.

[Stevejack]

18 minutes ago, SrMi said:

You can transfer the images from the internal (backup) card to an external card while downloading images from the original SD card.

That's true, but copying those files from the internal drive is still an extra step in the field which you don't want to be doing if you need to keep shooting during an event. You're basically at a stop until those internal files have downloaded.

[Dennis]

31 minutes ago, Stevejack said:

I don't think you can as easily make the case to upgrade to the M11 if you already have say an M10R which you would need to sell, but if you're looking to buy an additional body (especially with the aim to use it professionally) then the M11 would be a wise choice I think. 

This is what I thought... 

35 minutes ago, Stevejack said:

The hard part about the previous M cameras and professional work, is that you had no backup with only the single card slot. The M11 isn't that much better, you have the internal drive with is fine but the only way to really keep a backup is to set the camera to use the internal drive as your primary and use the SD card as your backup. That means connecting the camera to a computer to download the images off the internal drive before you can wipe it and start again. This may or may not be an issue on assignment depending on how many images you're likely to take in a day. 

I've shot about 45GB. That's the beauty of a 24MP file size. With the internal storage of the M11 would have felt better (and safer). But the question is... More professional? Anxiety free?

55 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

M10-R is good at 6400ISO

Like the Q2M at 12500? Or more like 25k?

Just kidding!

[Stevejack]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 minutes ago, Dennis said:

I've shot about 45GB. That's the beauty of a 24MP file size. With the internal storage of the M11 would have felt better (and safer). But the question is... More professional? Anxiety free?

Only in the sense that you have your backup as you're shooting.  I don't use internal backup with any of my cameras, but I'm also not being hired by anyone to come back with results. Losing an entire morning of images due to not having a backup I would think would seem pretty unprofessional, but that's a call only your employer can make. 

In-camera backup has really only been an option for the last 15 years or so, and if you shoot film you're out of luck in that department anyway. Yeah it's a risk but you could also drop your camera over the side of the boat lose everything that way. I think carrying two cameras and using them both would be backup enough for most assignments 👍

[Mahesh]

21 hours ago, graphlex said:

An EVF-only M would enable competing lens manufacturers to develop a market for M lenses without rangefinder coupling. Leica itself surely would want to discourage that. 

There is already a French company who sell APSC M mount cameras, called Pixi or something similar. There is nothing stopping for any company to produce similar to an M mount camera. However, the market is limited for that. General public like to use autofocus. 

[rsh]

I am 68, my wife and I are both retired and are in decent shape financially as long as we are careful.  The markets seem to be in free fall at the moment, Covid is still rampant and that is most concerning.  We want to travel and that is not inexpensive.

The M11 seems to be a wonderful new camera but at this point, it makes no sense FOR ME at this time from a financial standpoint.  Additionally, and according to the terrific and varied members of this forum, there seem to be some teething issues with the M11.  This is no surprise as it is a new camera with new electronics and new firmware.  There is no doubt the engineers at Leica will correct all issues in time.

At some point, I may move on an M11, but the time is not right for me at this point.

One last point, please be kind and respect everyone’s opinions and points of view.  Mostly, enjoy life and do what you love.

Edited January 24, 2022 by rsh

[adan]

I did go out and buy two 8-terabyte drives today, so that should remove "file size" from the equation. 1/18th the price of the M11.

And each about 4x times the storage of all my picture archives from 2001 until now. So I should be good for another 60 years, right? (hah!).

[Kim Dahl]

On 1/24/2022 at 12:51 AM, Dennis said:

Yes, I would prefer to stick with the M system only. Small size and light (compared to SL). I particularly enjoy using OVF. When it's not possible, or I work at short distances such as 50-90cm range, I use LV. In other words, I don't enjoy looking at the world through a screen. Hurra for the OVF!
.
So far, 24MP is enough for what I do. A bargain M10-P should be fine. As my M10, but silent. Perspective control and touch screen don't really need it. But I take it.
.
About the M11

• I love the 64 iso. On My M10, I try don't go below 200 iso (cause the highlights recovery), so it's almost two stops advantage to shoot wide open. Or to work on purpose at low SS.
• I love I can change iso with the thumbwheel. I think it could be a life-changer. ISO deal is okay where it is. But up and down switches are awful. 
• I love battery capacity.
• And the slightly better sensor and DR.

I'm perfectly comfortable with M10 by daylight. The 200 iso is a limitation, but it works. The issue is by night. 3200 is my top. I rarely use 6400, only when mandatory. And having a solid 6400 is very important. AFAIS, about low light performance, the M10-P is like the M10. Maybe one extra stop for M10-R and one and a half for the M11? I didn't read all the comparison threads. In other words? Which M10 type (except M10M) give me the best 6400 iso performance?

 

 

Yes, I completely agree.  For the Leica M to work in a professional environment, it is crucial that it does well in low light.  Like very nice 6400 iso and usable 12500/25000 iso.  This suggests that the Leica M has done so for the first time here.  60 MP is just an extra plus but not essential.  This is how I think Leica M for my use.

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, Artin said:

Well actually the internal drive is a perfect solution for back up. You just have to shoot mirror where the files are on the internal and sd card, then you load the sd card to the computer when all is well and stored you format both and start again.  In case your sd card is corrupt and won’t load to your hard drive that is when you fall back to the internal.  The only bad part is you have maximum 64 gigs in most cases is fine unless you are out in the woods for a week or 2 with no access to a CPU 

on any regular work day I will shoot more then 256GB, not sure I would stop the working process when the internal memory is full.

I rather relay on good quality SD cards

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 1/24/2022 at 3:39 AM, SrMi said:

IMO, such a camera should be part of the SL line, not the M line, 

It should have its own letter. It would be neither M or SL.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 1/24/2022 at 6:59 AM, Dennis said:

I just came back home from an assignment for a regional travel magazine. Five days among oasis, desert islands, and beautiful landscapes. From sunrise to sunset. Never shoot in dark environments, except a few random photos. I bring my M10 + CV 21/4 + CV 35/1.2III + 35 Cron (asph I) + 50 Cron (v5)... Four lenses, two batteries, and 256GB are available. I guess I used about 92% OVF. It was my first time (professionally) ever with only an M system. I used Q2M and M10 for one day, once. And many times Dslr + M10... But only M10 (I mean one body, that's it), one card slot, and two batteries only, it was the first time. I must say, the camera did an amazing job; I'm grateful and thrilled I relied on my M10. Today culling, soon I will share my faves!

M10 nailed it, professionally speaking. If only I had two extra batteries and another body, I would have made things easier and probably, got more compelling photos (having two bodies with two lenses attached). The conditions, I would say, were challenging. Ocean water, boats, 4x4 roads, dust, dirt, and sand. Pretty thought conditions. It also fell off from an SUV's backseat to the floor with soil. I took the camera quickly, and there was about half a spoon of dirt between the lens and the hood 😱 So far, so good. It passed the IP rating, lol

P.s. If I want to use soon and exclusively use the M system for professional work, I know I need another body soon. I found a super deal for an M10P/R? Or is it wise to embrace the new M11 ? 🤔

I have all the cameras you're thinking about, except the M10-P. And I've run two M's professionally for years. My personal opinion?

It depends on how much you might use the live view functionality. Although there's a few extra interesting things in the M11.

Personally I'd skip the M10-P. If you're OK with bigger files then the M10R will give you a file size not available on the M10P. The M10R also has noticable improvements in usable DR plus all the M10-P extras and shares EVF and batteries. It'll hold its value better. It's a fabulous camera.

For the M11 you get to use the variable DNG files. This is a big one for me as different clients have different needs. And if you shoot event you can mix and match througout the day. M-DNG stores around a thousand images internally. That might be the sweet spot for a lot of people. If you see needing wider than 28 or longer than 90 the the live view will pay for itself. It's vastly improved over the M10R. You will be able to use the new EVF eventually but you'll have two battery types. The M11 batteries last semmingly forever and you can top them up via USBC.

Lots of my cliends demand larger files. So I stopped using my M10's. But my combo of an M10R and M11 might mean I start using the M seriously again. My SL2 and X1D's have been excellent though.

Gordon

[hdmesa]

15 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

...If you see needing wider than 28 or longer than 90 the the live view will pay for itself...

Or if you need the tilting EVF with the much higher quality. It's a lot easier to be crouched over or down on one knee than laying flat on the ground. Also shooting at normal height while looking down into the tilted EVF is a fun way to shoot – and it can be less threatening when shooting street and events. Of course the old Visoflex tilts, but the shooting experience is less than optimal.

Edited January 26, 2022 by hdmesa

[Tailwagger]

6 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Or if you need the tilting EVF with the much higher quality. It's a lot easier to be crouched over or down on one knee than laying flat on the ground. Also shooting at normal height while looking down into the tilted EVF is a fun way to shoot – and it can be less threatening when shooting street and events. Of course the old Visoflex tilts, but the shooting experience is less than optimal.

Or you have a Billingham Digital, want to be able to carry three lenses and still be able to pull the camera in and out of the bag without the rather expensive Visolux popping off somewhere never to be seen again... as once happened with my previous 020. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[adan]

What is the maximum "eyepoint" of the Viso 2 - that is, how far away from the eyepiece can one's eye still see the whole image? (doesn't have to be big enough to focus, necessarily, just to frame to the edges (or "close enough")). I note from Tailwagger's bag shot above that the eyepiece is pretty large.

I'm just thinking of hail-Mary camera-upside-down-over-the-head shots in crowds, or low-angle shots without getting too far down in the mud.

Like a Hassy with the standard WL finder - or top-end Nikons/Canons/Mirandas of old, where the prism could be popped off. Generally "arm's length."

https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/NikonF5/viewfinder/index.htm

Enquiring journalists want to know.

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, adan said:

What is the maximum "eyepoint" of the Viso 2 - that is, how far away from the eyepiece can one's eye still see the whole image? (doesn't have to be big enough to focus, necessarily, just to frame to the edges (or "close enough")). I note from Tailwagger's bag shot above that the eyepiece is pretty large.

I'm just thinking of hail-Mary camera-upside-down-over-the-head shots in crowds, or low-angle shots without getting too far down in the mud.

Like a Hassy with the standard WL finder - or top-end Nikons/Canons/Mirandas of old, where the prism could be popped off. Generally "arm's length."

https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/NikonF5/viewfinder/index.htm

Enquiring journalists want to know.

I'd tell you but you're way too much of a meanie when it comes to EVFs... especially when you won't like the answer (which is the case here I suspect). 😃 

At first I couldn't make it happen as the eye sensor shuts the EVF down unless your eye is within about two fingers worth... and I have fairly small hands. I flailed about a little but couldn't seem to find a way to fool the sensor. At the point where it shuts off its about 95% visible, but I noted some curvature on the edge of the frame. But it occurred to me that perhaps with the EVF in EVF mode instead of EVF Extended, it might not shut off and lo, it didn't. So I set that mode and checked.

I'm afraid, and I hate to tell you this as I suspect you'll wind up shooting me or someone else's EVF comments with the ammo I'm suppling, the answer isn't what you're looking for.  Bottom line is that the edges disappear after an inch or two. The viso's additional optics do seem to be playing a role here. So it's a bit like wearing glasses with a 28mm in the OVF only on steroids.  If you move your head around you can manage to see the edges, but its not a very satisfying experience.  And once you get past a couple of inches or so it strikes me as completely useless.  

I do wonder though, as I'm thinking about it, if someone well versed in these things might be able to figure a design to clamp a hood with another lens or two on the viso to enlarge and project the image. Kickstarter project, anyone?

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Tailwagger

[adan]

Sorry I can't give you both a "Laugh" and a "Thanks."

Your words will not be taken down and used against you in a Court of Law.

I still wish Leica (being innovative and oddball, and always ready to acquire our cash with accessories) would just create something like the image below - simple credit-card-sized LCD screen with a foot that slides into the hotshoe, and uses the EVF contacts. More elegant than a flip-out screen.

And totally optional and removable.

It is the one thing I miss from the old pro SLRs before digital. Even the regular LV LCD won't always work - unless one has a neck like a giraffe.

But I suspect Leica thinks FOTOS serves the same purpose (except for those of us who don't use smartphones, either )

(EDIT: Anyone got Stefan Daniel's or Janko's (?) email? PM is fine - for their privacy).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by adan

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Tailwagger]

4 hours ago, adan said:

Your words will not be taken down and used against you in a Court of Law.

That's a relief. In which case,  and as long as I'm not in any sort of jeopardy, I'll mention that it suddenly occurred to me this morning that perhaps, if one messed around with the diopter settings, perhaps it might work... but...  

l was about to check after coffee and crossword when your illustration struck me as a similar notion to mounting a on camera video monitor.  I wondered, as awkward as it might be, if you could just mount a phone somehow.  Short usb cable (or use wifi) and you'd be in business. So I figured, someone must have made a hotshoe phone holder and sure enough, the first one I came across, providentially, was this...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Under $12 bucks from B&H. AND IT HAS THE RED DOT ALREADY!!!!! My cunning plan is to dismantle the Z for parts turn the U on its side and paste it where the Z use to be. We then turn the N on its side and place next to the L adding a piece of the Z we savaged to the center of it, having first removed the A. We take the I and place it where the N was, then move the A to where the I was and, viola! What's that spell? L E I C A.  We then turn around and sell em in boutiques to fashion conscious inquiring reporters, at least those that have cell phones,  for $125 a pop.  We'll make a fortune!