Survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

[harmen]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

4 hours ago, pgk said:

Problem is that I also shoot underwater - Sony A7 system - also for macro, copying, old lenses, etc. I do have an Sl for some of this too, but adding an M11 isn't going to happen at the price.

Underwater… then the actual camera is a mere fraction of the cost of the system.  But, yes, it does make an M an addition.

[Chaemono]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb goodbokeh:

A question about the M11 that I have not seen asked or answered is this: With the shutter open for constant sensor metering subsequent shutter re-cocking and travel is needed before a photo is taken. Does the M11 have shutter shock because of this action with the absence of Electronic First Curtain Shutter (EFCS)? Shutter shock was a constant problem for other mirrorless camera models that required EFCS to be implemented across the board by many camera companies. I understand the SL2 & SL2-S also lack EFCS, I don't know why.

I'm very concerned about M11 shutter shock, somebody should be addressing this issue head-on but it's been crickets from what I've read so far.

It’s not a big issue. The M11 comes with the same well dampened shutter as the M10-P (shutter sound comparisons https://youtu.be/0FSV9Jp3Xbo), M shooters hardly ever use long focal lengths, and the reviewers mostly agree that the camera needs to be shot at shutter speeds 2f (depending on one’s technique) to avoid camera shake.

Note that Jim Kasson does the shutter shock test on the Z7 with a 125 mm lens. https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/shutter-shock-and-the-nikon-z7/ I shot the Z7 with M lenses and shutter shock was never an issue.

An excerpt below:

https://photographylife.com/what-is-electronic-front-curtain-shutter

However, don’t be too scared of it, since it is not something you will see in every image, as shutter shock only happens under particular conditions, such as the following:

At particular shutter speeds relative to the focal length of the lens. The typical danger zone is 1/2 to 1/50th of a second for most lenses.

When using long focal length lenses (telephoto and supertelephoto) and relatively slow shutter speeds (typically below reciprocal rule values).

When using a camera with an undamped / loud shutter mechanism.

So if your camera has a damped shutter mechanism and you are using relatively fast shutter speeds or very slow shutter speeds longer than 1 second, you should be able to avoid shutter shock in your images.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Chaemono

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[rramesh]

The M is primarily a rangefinder.

I like features that improve the rangefinder experience and I am quite happy with the M10-Ps near silent shutter and low light performance coupled with what enhancements in post-processing software can do today e.g. Topaz, ON1 etc.

With the advancements in CMOS sensor technology, focus confirmation and possibly even focus lock would have been nice though. Maybe it will show up in a future model.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by rramesh

[rramesh]

7 minutes ago, Artin said:

Ahhh focus lock ?  On a manual focus camera ? 

I can think of many ways. One maybe such as below:

• Use the electronic shutter
• Point a cross hair in the optical viewfinder at the desired point of focus with a Fn/shutter button pressed
• Adjust focus manually using the rangefinder patch and the cross hair
• When there is focus confirmation (say a green LED in the viewfinder), the electronic shutter automatically take the photo.

[SrMi]

37 minutes ago, Artin said:

Ahhh focus lock ?  On a manual focus camera ? 

It gives electric shocks when you try to touch the focusing ring.

[cirke]

What would most appeal to you about the Leica M11?: 

 The M12 is coming

[Olivier76]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Saving for an M11P

[COBACHOTIX]

M11 looks great in all features, but I think it focuses more on software solutions than on hardware. Also not sure to share the attractiveness of the new bottom cap. I love the traditional M. The M11 is indeed a re-invention, but perhaps not really an M but a great new camera based on an M design. Therefore, I would certainly remain trustworthy with my M10monochrom which I am totally in-loved with. 

[pgk]

15 hours ago, Artin said:

+1. That would be the smartest move they can make, it would invite a ton of new users to the system. But Leica has only once in their history tried that, it was the Leica CL. During the M5 era.  

M4-2, M4-P - cheaper constructon than the M4 I believe, without compromising the fundamentals. M6 then built on this and added, then TTL.

From my perspective the M11 still suffers from 'bloat' from what I have read. I still think that there is a significant market for a digital version of the M6. Manual exposure, centre-weighted meter, no frills whatsoever. That said I wonder if the current sensors are too sophisticated to make such modifications substantially cheaper and that another model would not be too much less to buy?

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, Artin said:

We have four years to save 15,000 dollars.. bring it on 

That would be what inflation rate, assuming the price does not change as it did not with M11 :)?

[kivis]

I love the specs on the M11, but I am going to wait until my M-P 240 becomes unusable. It is serving me quite well.

[kivis]

2 hours ago, pgk said:

M4-2, M4-P - cheaper constructon than the M4 I believe, without compromising the fundamentals. M6 then built on this and added, then TTL.

From my perspective the M11 still suffers from 'bloat' from what I have read. I still think that there is a significant market for a digital version of the M6. Manual exposure, centre-weighted meter, no frills whatsoever. That said I wonder if the current sensors are too sophisticated to make such modifications substantially cheaper and that another model would not be too much less to buy?

Me thinks the M262 is what you are looking for, or an M10-D

[pgk]

19 minutes ago, kivis said:

Me thinks the M262 is what you are looking for, or an M10-D

No. Neither really enthuse me at all. I want a 'back to basics' camera, no frills whatsoever. Basically as per the original concept of the M.

[pippy]

19 minutes ago, pgk said:

I still think that there is a significant market for a digital version of the M6. Manual exposure, centre-weighted meter, no frills whatsoever...

I want a 'back to basics' camera, no frills whatsoever. Basically as per the original concept of the M.

You want an M-D Typ-262, Paul. It has an ISO dial and a shutter-speed dial. That's it(*) as far as controls are concerned.

Philip.

* Edit : Of course it also has an Off/On/S-timer Switch; a Shutter-Release Button and TTL metering...

Edited January 16, 2022 by pippy

[Fedro]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

You want an M-D Typ-262, Paul. It has an ISO dial and a shutter-speed dial. That's it(*) as far as controls are concerned.

Philip.

* Edit : Of course it also has an Off/On/S-timer Switch; a Shutter-Release Button and TTL metering...

lovely camera, one that i certainly miss

back to the OP I said I would not, but then I did

[zwieback]

maybe the news needs to spread and more reviews being released but until now I am quite sceptical that the M11 will be a success for Leica. During the presentaion of the camera mentioned that the camera is in stck, black and silver and could directly be taken home. It was said, that Leica took care this time to pre produce enough cameras before going on sale. Anyway, it surprised me. When I arrived at the shop, I was confirmed that no appointment was required, I was expecting quite a few people already waiting in the shop. It was the saturday directly after launch and beautiful weather too. I thought there would be high interest. In big contrast, the shop was empty and in fact I was the only visitor within more than 1 hour. WHen I levt there was somebody coming in to ask for a Q acressory and an older couple that just came to visit the gallery. In some way that was positive for me. I could directly grab the camera after having some discussion with the Leica guys and I was ready to go.

I would have expected much higher interest of the community after the release of the camera. Even some online presentations (I had a quick look) were booked by only very few people. When I was invited for the M10 mono the situation was very different and the store was packed. It is a stare in the centre of a big city saturday afternoon with bright sunnshine all day after the launch and nobody interested... Not sure if this will be representative of corse but this poll seems to reflect it. I think Leica underrates the M clients in the approch, that they would follow the flow - which is going to more and more MPix and auto focus point and simulations... As Leica does not seem to really develop the M as an M camera and they (rightly) do not offer AF and simulations, they thought that only the Mpix would be enough but to me it is not an argument for a new M and it seems a lot of users share this oppinion.

Might be that I draw a too dark picture but it would not surprise me an awful lot if what makes the M11 a legend is that it would be the last M generation (digital) and that would make me very sad.

[costa43]

I’ll stick with my m9p. More tempted to add a monochrom body alongside it. I do like the full sensor metering though. Multi matrix via the rangefinder would be useful.

Edited January 16, 2022 by costa43

[Oswalt]

29 minutes ago, zwieback said:

maybe the news needs to spread and more reviews being released but until now I am quite sceptical that the M11 will be a success for Leica. During the presentaion of the camera mentioned that the camera is in stck, black and silver and could directly be taken home. It was said, that Leica took care this time to pre produce enough cameras before going on sale. Anyway, it surprised me. When I arrived at the shop, I was confirmed that no appointment was required, I was expecting quite a few people already waiting in the shop. It was the saturday directly after launch and beautiful weather too. I thought there would be high interest. In big contrast, the shop was empty and in fact I was the only visitor within more than 1 hour. WHen I levt there was somebody coming in to ask for a Q acressory and an older couple that just came to visit the gallery. In some way that was positive for me. I could directly grab the camera after having some discussion with the Leica guys and I was ready to go.

I would have expected much higher interest of the community after the release of the camera. Even some online presentations (I had a quick look) were booked by only very few people. When I was invited for the M10 mono the situation was very different and the store was packed. It is a stare in the centre of a big city saturday afternoon with bright sunnshine all day after the launch and nobody interested... Not sure if this will be representative of corse but this poll seems to reflect it. I think Leica underrates the M clients in the approch, that they would follow the flow - which is going to more and more MPix and auto focus point and simulations... As Leica does not seem to really develop the M as an M camera and they (rightly) do not offer AF and simulations, they thought that only the Mpix would be enough but to me it is not an argument for a new M and it seems a lot of users share this oppinion.

Might be that I draw a too dark picture but it would not surprise me an awful lot if what makes the M11 a legend is that it would be the last M generation (digital) and that would make me very sad.

I wholeheartedly agree. What you have described reflects my experience here as well. It's very easy to get the camera right now, and I suppose the debate might be already settled on this camera in the minds of potential buyers. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Oswalt

[adan]

I saw someone ordering an M11 at our little local shop just yesterday. Trading in a huge stack of Nikon lenses, including a 500 f/4 and such - plus his 4-month-old M10-R (he was also taking delivery of a Canon R of some kind, and likely some Canon lenses).

I have to stop in tomorrow anyway, so I will ask them what delivery time-frame Leica quoted the store for his order. I may end up with an M11 sooner than I thought.

I do recognize there is a huge "sticker-shock" factor here, for those of us who haven't bought a new M in a few years.

My M10s (as I think I already mentioned) were both less than $7000 new, 4-5 years ago.

But since an M10-R (black chrome, not paint) or M10-M are listed for the same price as the M11 at B&H, that "inflation" has been in place for a while.

..................

BTW - it occurs to me that with the increasing number of Asian M-mount lenses being sold (I plead guilty - 2 C/V f/1.4 lenses in my stable), Leica may have decided their camera bodies can no longer reliably be priced as "loss-leaders" (well, more or less) to promote lens sales.

They need to charge enough for M camera bodies to make a profit and cover development costs, even if folks buy only the camera, and then load it up with used Leica lenses, Voigtlanders, TTArtisans/7Artisans, and so on.

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by adan

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Jeff S]

Plus the new, fast APO M lenses, now with the shorter MFD of the 35 APO Summicron M, seems to be the direction for more extremely high priced M lenses.  The shorter MFD wasn’t even included in the 35 APO marketing specs according to recent Leica interviews, but was added when the tech side of the house showed what was possible.  I think Leica embraced the concept in part to push and to justify the price jump, apart from any other reasons such as EVF vs RF viewing.  
 

The M system, as a whole, has dramatically increased price point in a relatively short period (aside from tax issues). The other product lines… Q, SL… of course couldn’t survive competitively with this pricing philosophy.  The M system stands alone. Although it seems that while the S system initially could withstand higher prices without competitive concerns, the likes of Pentax (initially), then Fuji and Hasselblad, derailed that approach and set a different price point for digital MF.  Tough business these days.  It will be fascinating to see where this eventually shakes out.

Jeff

Edited January 16, 2022 by Jeff S