M10/M10P or MP240

[Guest]

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Hi all,

I'm trying to decide between whether to get a 2nd hand M10, M10-P or a M-P240 (silver or safari). I know the differences on spec sheets, but would love to hear some "real world" advice/comparisions.

- Is IQ of M10 substantially better than MP240?

- The price difference between M10 and M10-P is quite large 2nd hand. Almost bigger than difference in original list prices.

- Any thing else to consider?

Best,

Mads

[a.noctilux]

@mcpallesen

- Any thing else to consider?

 

YES,

true real life use.

How that, buy one use it a lot,

then another one... if need be 😉.

 

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[SiggiGun]

If you need Video => M240. If you a looking for a "real" M => M10 is a good choice. M10-P has some enhancement but it is a question of money after all.

[KFo]

I did a similar exercise.  Basically I came down on the side of buying the latest model, at that time M10P.  

For digital stuff, I prefer to buy-in at the current revision.  If you can afford it, buy the M10P.

[a.noctilux]

Mads, I'd begin with the M-P 240, or cheaper plain M240.

I don't have the M-P 240 but had bought pre-owned M240 after using the M10, for a while out of curiosity, then hooked by the M240 family and bought the other second hand when I could, nothing to complain with those.

They are quite different so I DO use them along.

I must be the rare one who can hardly see the difference of files when I use M240 ( and family M262, M-D, M246 ) or M10.

To about 3200 ISO, the files are not quite different with same lens (this is the device to consider, if we see some difference).

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Mads, I'd begin with the M-P 240, or cheaper plain M240.

I don't have the M-P 240 but had bought pre-owned M240 after using the M10, for a while out of curiosity, then hooked by the M240 family and bought the other second hand when I could, nothing to complain with those.

They are quite different so I DO use them along.

I must be the rare one who can hardly see the difference of files when I use M240 ( and family M262, M-D, M246 ) or M10.

To about 3200 ISO, the files are not quite different with same lens (this is the device to consider, if we see some difference).

Thank you, a.noctilux. 
 

I think you are right, and have pretty much reached that conclusion too. So, I plan on seeking out a mint MP-240 in silver and probably pair it with a black 35mm Summicron (most likely ASPH. V2).

This will be my side kick for color photography with my Q2 Mono my dedicated B/W camera. 😊

[Guest BlackBarn]

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I have the M10M and use a  MP240 for colour. It works well for me and I actually prefer the slightly larger shape of the 240 compared to the M10.

I agree with @Artin a great  value Leica M.   

[Adam Bonn]

To me the M10 feels nicer in the hand and I can tell the difference with the eye relief on the OVF

The 240 battery is much bigger and lasts longer

The files are fairly similar to my eye at low ISO however the 10 has a cooler look, better skin tones and less IR contamination, the M10 also has files that are more malleable, a noticeable ISO improvement - namely much less banding, and no green shadows. IMHO there’s a real world stop + in high ISO improvement in terms of colour on the M10

I cashed out of my 240 to fund a secondhand M10 last May. It was a big jump between 240 sale price and M10 acquisition price, and in the cold hard light of reason an M10 is not worth twice as much as an M240. 

That said I haven’t had buyers remorse for a nano second as all those improvements have been useful to me! I was a little concerned about the 10 battery life, but (I don’t really chimp or use the EVF much) I regularly get 500-700 shots from it (240 was more like 800-1000)

For the 240, well it’s a veritable bargain in the digital M world, offering the most features for the least money and anecdotally being the most reliable M.

Along with the low prices of the 240 you’ll also find that the accessories go cheaply secondhand too, so if you want the handgrip, gen case, EVF, multifunction grip etc you’ll be able to get these relatively cheaply too.

 

TL:DR

 

The 240 is a perfectly good camera able to turn its hand to many things well. At base ISO it gives little away to the M10 and offers more features and more battery life.

Make no mistake though, the M10 is a more polished product, you’ll just have to pay a lot more for it.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

To me the M10 feels nicer in the hand and I can tell the difference with the eye relief on the OVF

The 240 battery is much bigger and lasts longer

The files are fairly similar to my eye at low ISO however the 10 has a cooler look, better skin tones and less IR contamination, the M10 also has files that are more malleable, a noticeable ISO improvement - namely much less banding, and no green shadows. IMHO there’s a real world stop + in high ISO improvement in terms of colour on the M10

I cashed out of my 240 to fund a secondhand M10 last May. It was a big jump between 240 sale price and M10 acquisition price, and in the cold hard light of reason an M10 is not worth twice as much as an M240. 

That said I haven’t had buyers remorse for a nano second as all those improvements have been useful to me! I was a little concerned about the 10 battery life, but (I don’t really chimp or use the EVF much) I regularly get 500-700 shots from it (240 was more like 800-1000)

For the 240, well it’s a veritable bargain in the digital M world, offering the most features for the least money and anecdotally being the most reliable M.

Along with the low prices of the 240 you’ll also find that the accessories go cheaply secondhand too, so if you want the handgrip, gen case, EVF, multifunction grip etc you’ll be able to get these relatively cheaply too.

 

TL:DR

 

The 240 is a perfectly good camera able to turn its hand to many things well. At base ISO it gives little away to the M10 and offers more features and more battery life.

Make no mistake though, the M10 is a more polished product, you’ll just have to pay a lot more for it.

Thanks a lot for the thoughtful response. Much appreciated 😊

[Herr Barnack]

17 hours ago, Artin said:

I had 2 M240s   And  one mp 240  I have not had a M10. Went strait to M10R.  I still think out of the DIGITAL M cameras the M240- MP 240. Is the Best Buy out there. I still miss a lot about my MP 240. Great battery life .. good Buffer.. good IQ.  And for 2500 US it’s a great buy   

All true.

I have shot with an M-P 240 Safari for 5+ years.  The image quality that the sensor delivers is outstanding - I have no disappointments in that regard. 

The 240's Achilles' Heel is ISO. 

6400 is the maximum ISO it has to offer.  I have found that if you want to make large (16x24 inches or larger) size exhibit quality prints, you are painted into a corner exposure wise in low light shooting situations - not so much if your use of the images is posting online or to website galleries.

If I am shooting with the intent of making prints, ISO 800 is about as high as I will go and feel safe about not having noise issues.  At ISO 1600 noise can start to become an issue, depending on the scene.  Shadows and parts of the subject that are black or dark gray will start to show noise

As an all around digital M, the M-P 240 does have a lot to offer, though.  Just bear in mind the noise issue. 

Regarding the M-P 240 vs. M10-P question, I would get the M10-P if the price is not out of reach.  You will get more current technology, a significantly better design and a more capable sensor in terms of high ISO performance.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Camaro5]

I recently traded my M-P 240 for an essentially new M10 with an extended warranty from Leica.  If you took the same photo with a 240 and an M10 with the same lens at the base ISO I don't think I could tell the difference.  I made the trade because of the low light performance of the M10 and the improvements to the range finder, Visoflex, and updated sensor & processor.  I've done some nice shots at night at high ISO's and the noise is fairly minimal.  Leica did take away the ability to change the frame line color and the level on the M10, which I miss.  Also the video is gone but I never used that.

For me personally it was mostly about getting a newer model updated M.  If this deal hadn't come along I might've not gotten it but overall I'm happy I made the upgrade.  After selling my M-P it essentially cost me about $1500 to make the upgrade for a newer camera, and I think it was worth it.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Herr Barnack said:

All true.

I have shot with an M-P 240 Safari for 5+ years.  The image quality that the sensor delivers is outstanding - I have no disappointments in that regard. 

The 240's Achilles' Heel is ISO. 

6400 is the maximum ISO it has to offer.  I have found that if you want to make large (16x24 inches or larger) size exhibit quality prints, you are painted into a corner exposure wise in low light shooting situations - not so much if your use of the images is posting online or to website galleries.

If I am shooting with the intent of making prints, ISO 800 is about as high as I will go and feel safe about not having noise issues.  At ISO 1600 noise can start to become an issue, depending on the scene.  Shadows and parts of the subject that are black or dark gray will start to show noise

As an all around digital M, the M-P 240 does have a lot to offer, though.  Just bear in mind the noise issue. 

Regarding the M-P 240 vs. M10-P question, I would get the M10-P if the price is not out of reach.  You will get more current technology, a significantly better design and a more capable sensor in terms of high ISO performance.

Would love a M-P240 Safari kit 😊 Such a cool combo. Thanks

[KFo]

2 minutes ago, mcpallesen said:

Would love a M-P240 Safari kit 😊 Such a cool combo. Thanks

Get the M10P Safari 😎

[Tailwagger]

As always, there's no right answer.  A lot was improved with the M10. Outside of the battery, video and, for me, the C (mulit-shot mode) on the on off switch rather than being buried in the menu system... something that pissed a lot of people off... technically I cant think of much to recommend it compared to the 10. On the negative side, processing was a bit more difficult...it was challenged in terms of reds and skin tones..., the EVF and blackout times are abysmal even by the standards of half a decade ago.  The M10 still feels like a modern 24Mpx camera, the M240 feels slow and a bit of a throwback. 

All that said, I slightly regret moving on from the 240 more than the M10.  Certain lenses, particularly the earlier ones, seemed to render with a bit more magic, particularly in B&W.  It was a bit more of a tank, but frankly I liked the larger body.  If you can deal with the slower operation and don;t care about the EVF, it would likely be my choice, at least at current pricing levels. 

[SrMi]

On 11/11/2021 at 6:12 AM, mcpallesen said:

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide between whether to get a 2nd hand M10, M10-P or a M-P240 (silver or safari). I know the differences on spec sheets, but would love to hear some "real world" advice/comparisions.

- Is IQ of M10 substantially better than MP240?

- The price difference between M10 and M10-P is quite large 2nd hand. Almost bigger than difference in original list prices.

- Any thing else to consider?

Best,

Mads

Perspective correction is available only on M10-P, M10-R and M10 Monochrom.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Perspective correction is available only on M10-P, M10-R and M10 Monochrom.

Thanks, ended up getting a lightly used M10-R. Should arrive next week. Can’t wait 😊

[duoenboge]

Very good decision. The Sensor of the R ist much better then the sensors of the others Ms. But be carefully with focal length >50mm.  Risk of blurring.

[Al Brown]

Sold my M240 fro M10-R, never *ever* looked back.

[Jeff S]

42 minutes ago, duoenboge said:

But be carefully with focal length >50mm.  Risk of blurring.

No different than M10 at same magnification/print size.  Discussed here ad nauseam.

Jeff

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Hallo,

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[84bravo]

There is a difference in IQ between the M240 and M10, but the improvement is minimal. If one is on a budget, the M240 is the best value out there right now. On the used market the M240 is nearly half the price of of a used M10. Not enough to justify the cost difference in my opinion. However, the improved VF and the slimmer size is a great improvement in the M10. I recently bought a new M10-R and the difference in file quality is exponentially better than the M10, and the M10 is excellent.

The previous digital M cameras were incrementally better with each generation. The latest M10-R is a huge leap compared to the previous upgrades (I'm still a fan of the M8.2 for BW though). Really looking forward to seeing what the M11 will offer.