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OhOh, future of CL?


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48 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

The thing is, if you buy the CL plus three lenses, it will be way more expensive than the Q2; also larger and heavier. If you are into lightness and compactness, it’s not the way to go

You know the answer, just just don’t want to see it.

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1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

The thing is, if you buy the CL plus three lenses, it will be way more expensive than the Q2; also larger and heavier. If you are into lightness and compactness, it’s not the way to go

Not so much if you think about the long term cost.  With the Q2 your lens will have no residual value when the camera/sensor dies.  With the CL + lenses path the lenses will continue to mount and work with whatever L mount cameras that are available for decades to come.

I agree that if you are a one camera one lens guy, the Q2 is compelling.  But the CL excels in other ways.  Never before had one been able to pack so much range (e.g. 17-200mm equivalent) and versatility into a package lighter and smaller than an M kit with 3 lenses.  Give me a CL + 11-18 + 55-135 + 35/1.4 and there is nothing I cannot do.  Or I can just use a couple of M lenses and beat an M kit in its own game in terms of compactness and stealthiness.  Or I can do macro with the 60/2.8.  Point is, the CL might just be the most versatile Leica ever existed.

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I just acquired a new T with the 18-56. I have always been curious about the TL 35/1.4 so I picked one one a couple weeks ago.  Perfect timing I see, I like to buy high and sell low. :)

Not a fan of the T as you cant chose your focus point but am delighted with the 35/1.4, a jewel of a lens!

I was looking forward to the CL successor to shoot alongside my M10-R.   I owned the original SL with the SL 50/2 which is a phenomenal combo but not a walk around kit.

My R has highlighted my eyesight is getting poorer, was excited to jump into an AF APS-C Leica sensor with killer glass!

Late to the party, not sure if I want to pick up a Cl when its dead? 

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6 hours ago, cpclee said:

With the Q2 your lens will have no residual value when the camera/sensor dies.

I’ve never quite thought of it like. that, but you do have a point. I have owned and sold both a Q and a Q2. I liked them both but settled on interchangeable Leica cameras CL, SL2, M10R and M10M because of the lenses. I can easily see keeping and using a lens for 20 or more years. I am still using a 35 summicron IV that is 35+ years old.

You are not alone in believing digital cameras to be ephemeral, and the lenses the enduring heart of the system.

 

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9 hours ago, Tortuga said:

The thing is, if you buy the CL plus three lenses, it will be way more expensive than the Q2; also larger and heavier. If you are into lightness and compactness, it’s not the way to go

The way to go for lightness and compactness is the Ricoh GRIII or GRIIIx, not a Leica.

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Its nice that we have a choice .

I can see the value in both as I`ve shot both Leica and GR`s for years.

I was going through my Flick`r the other day and saw an old shot .

Really liked the colours and thought .... what was that !

It was a GR2 .

So for me you can add colour to speed and compactness.

Handling probably not so much (in terms of haptics) but I don`t care if it does the job and they certainly do that .

I stuck a metal 28 Voigt finder on mine if I wanted precise framing.

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5 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The way to go for lightness and compactness is not a Leica or a Ricoh but an iPhone.

It depends. A smartphone is ok-ish at best, I find pictures produced with a smartphone to be overprocessed, and the interface clunky and too slow to use. Most of the times you need two hands, one to hold the smartphone, one to focus, and by the time you've unlocked your phone, the decisive moment is long gone.

A GRIII fits in your pocket, and when set to hyperfocal and snap focus, you take it out of your pocket, press the shutter and you're done. Works with gloves too, something that's not great with a smartphone. And this is before we mention the sensor.

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14 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

The CL doesn't fit into your pant's pocket because of the lenses. The GR does.

The GR3 is a fixed lens camera, not the CL. A fair comparo would be CL vs Ricoh GXR mount A12... and the later's EVF in another pocket ;).

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14 minutes ago, lct said:

The GR3 is a fixed lens camera, not the CL. A fair comparo would be CL vs Ricoh GXR mount A12... and the later's EVF in another pocket ;).

Not at all. The user Tortuga above said he plans to use the CL + 1 lens, because 3 lenses is too expensive and too heavy and for him light + compact is the top choice

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37 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Not at all. The user Tortuga above said he plans to use the CL + 1 lens, because 3 lenses is too expensive and too heavy and for him light + compact is the top choice

I'm not good at comparing apples to oranges sorry.

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1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

The CL doesn't fit into your pant's pocket because of the lenses. The GR does.

Depends how developed you are :)  I could toss film M with not even pancake lens on it into my jeans pockets.

But I won’t toss any of GRD I have into the dust depositary a.k.a. Pockets.

GR III is just as any GR, GRD, made in  China at its best. Dust on sensors, failing dials and lens blocks. 
I’d rather spend on outdated CL, rather than buying new GRD III which was plagued with defective dial from day one.

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1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Depends how developed you are :)  I could toss film M with not even pancake lens on it into my jeans pockets.

But I won’t toss any of GRD I have into the dust depositary a.k.a. Pockets.

GR III is just as any GR, GRD, made in  China at its best. Dust on sensors, failing dials and lens blocks. 
I’d rather spend on outdated CL, rather than buying new GRD III which was plagued with defective dial from day one.

That`s bad luck ... I`ve had a number of them over the years and all apart from one bought used .

Used them in the street and out in the field and hills and never had any trouble from dust and certainly never from defective dials .

Just goes to show ....

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4 hours ago, jaapv said:

Well, if you want some IQ, Leica does offer in the same functionality, only slightly larger but with a faster and probably nicer lens.

 

 

 

I have both the CL with the TL18 and the Ricoh GRiii and have used both for several years, including at the same time with side-by-side comparisons at close, middle and far distance. I have owned and used prior versions of the GR for over a decade. 

In terms of the lenses, the TL18 is no match for the Ricoh - it is sharp in the center, but falls apart quickly moving to the edges and becomes overtly blurry with a lot of chromatic abberation. The Ricoh is much sharper across the entire frame with much more detail particularly toward the edges, and gives consistently more pleasing images to my eye. 

The TL18 is not faster either. 

In terms of total size, the differences may not be large in terms of numbers, but are in terms of impact: the Ricoh slips easily in my jean pocket, even with a protective bag, and the CL+TL18 does not. 

In terms of durability, in over a decade of use I’ve never found dust on the sensor of a Ricoh, nor have any of the buttons or dials, or anything else for that matter, ever broken. I thus have no experience with Ricoh support. My experience with support from Leica USA when I needed it was *TERRIBLE*. 

In terms of usability, the Ricoh I suspect has a faster buffer and never locks up on me like the CL sometimes does. It has notably better face AF. It does not suffer from a wandering focal point. The CL+TL18 has overall faster AF, particulary in low light and also has useable MF, which the Ricoh does not. 

The Ricoh has an excellent macro function. 

The CL+TL18 has an evf, and an excellent one, while the Ricoh has only a screen or an OVF, which for me is a huge plus for the CL and is why I will take it with me over the Ricoh. The menus on the Ricoh are excellent, but the ones on the CL are even better. 

The CL+TL18, on sale, cost me more than triple what the Ricoh cost me.  

They are very apple-orange once you take off the TL18 and can use the CL with all sort of other lenses, some superb.

I just bought the new Ricoh GRiiix to add to the GRiii. So far so good. 

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18 hours ago, jaapv said:

Telezooms don't change perspective compared to the same focal length either. The only thing that determines perspective is the position of the camera.

Somewhat to my surprise this is also true... here's a wonderful article explaining this https://fstoppers.com/architecture/how-lens-compression-and-perspective-distortion-work-251737

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2 hours ago, Michael Markey said:

That`s bad luck ... I`ve had a number of them over the years and all apart from one bought used .

Used them in the street and out in the field and hills and never had any trouble from dust and certainly never from defective dials .

Just goes to show ....

No. It is well known, common problems for these cameras:

https://streetphototip.com/howtos/howto-avoid-fix-common-ricoh-gr-problems/

 

 

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