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OhOh, future of CL?


PDP

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4 minutes ago, Paul Reading said:

I think that Leica made a mistake with the CL. They really didn't want it to compete with the M. This is their mistake, they need to make every camera in their range as good as they can. I remember Clarkson getting very annoyed with Porsche for doing the same thing with their product range it was clear that the Cayman with its low centre of gravity and mid-engine configuration could challenge the 911, but they never allowed the Cayman t do that, the result he said left him disappointed because he felt it was a cynical way of designing cars. Leica did the same with this camera which is stupid, people who can afford M's are not going to buy the CL. Some people will buy the CL for it's size.

I strongly suspect Leica is losing out to both Sony and Fuji in this size range not because of price but because they have sand-bagged and now it is thoroughly underwhelming. Fuju have had a 26mp APS-C sensor for some years now and a 32mb could well be on the cards. I hope that Leica do update the CL and the TL, the TL is lovely they don't have to re-engineer it they just need to update it's sensor. The CL has some minor usability problems (Highlighted by Thorsten) and an old sensor.

I don't believe the lack of sales are anything to do with price nor demand. I also do not believe that it would cost a lot to update these cameras to massively increase their appeal. I strongly believe that Leica do not have their heart in it, they don't want to make a APS-C that they perceive will damage the sales of the M.

 

Unless there is a change is heart the CL will wither.

Perfect analysis although I wasn`t familiar with the term "sandbagged" but yes that`s exactly what seems to have been done . 

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2 minutes ago, Louis said:

People why get CL would never bye an M rangefinder. Two completely different cameras!

They are but I for one , having shot M for years on the street, prefer the CL with an EVF and I suspect a growing number of people do to.

That`s what the poster was suggesting . 

They don`t want that competition to continue to the detriment of the M .

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3 minutes ago, Michael Markey said:

They are but I for one , having shot M for years on the street, prefer the CL with an EVF and I suspect a growing number of people do to.

That`s what the poster was suggesting . 

They don`t want that competition to continue to the detriment of the M .

That’s exactly the reason I sold my M , because of the size , weight and EVF . Is the new M11 including an EVF ? 

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8 minutes ago, Michael Markey said:

They don`t want that competition to continue to the detriment of the M .

There are also people that want a smaller camera and are not interested in rangefinders, and that now will flock to Fuji or Sony or whatever.

What is better, cannibalize sales and have a customer stay into your ecosystem or lose that customer to another company?

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11 minutes ago, Michael Markey said:

They are but I for one , having shot M for years on the street, prefer the CL with an EVF and I suspect a growing number of people do to.

That`s what the poster was suggesting . 

They don`t want that competition to continue to the detriment of the M .

I am also shooting mostly in street. CL is small, AF, and very discreet; I could never do with M what I am able with CL.

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4 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

There are also people that want a smaller camera and are not interested in rangefinders, and that now will flock to Fuji or Sony or whatever.

What is better, cannibalize sales and have a customer stay into your ecosystem or lose that customer to another company?

Maybe the solution is one of the other brands (Canon / Nikon) with a 24-105 and a fast prime (50 1.4) Then I do not need more.

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5 minutes ago, Michael Markey said:

Exactly ... I have three M`s sitting on the shelf .

A `55 M3 ,`60 M2 and a `69 BP M4 .

The CL is just so good and maybe that is the problem 

That's probably the problem.  But if Leica thinks I will get to use my M more because they stop making CL they are wrong.  I am instead trying to find an alternative to CL.  I just do not quite know yet what it should be.  But Leica does not have an alternative.  And I'm sorry for that. 

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33 minutes ago, mikepower said:

That’s exactly the reason I sold my M , because of the size , weight and EVF . Is the new M11 including an EVF ? 

The new M includes a number of non-traditional things, but that won’t make it a CL alternative 

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18 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

That's probably the problem.  But if Leica thinks I will get to use my M more because they stop making CL they are wrong.  I am instead trying to find an alternative to CL.  I just do not quite know yet what it should be.  But Leica does not have an alternative.  And I'm sorry for that. 

If I were looking for an alternative I`d switch to Fuji in a heartbeat .

Really like their colour profiles  ,any other consideration would take a back seat .

I`d just put up with the stuff I don`t like .... there`s always something anyway .

Nothings perfect .

Edited by Michael Markey
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WOW, what a massive response on my little „ohoh“, hope they read it at Leica.

I do not know sales figures, I can only answer with a photographer‘s ❤️. The SL system might be fantastic in terms of technology, but it is by far too heavy and too large. Do not want to walk for hours with this camera and these lenses. When shooting street or portrait with my CL people love the size of camera and lens, they do not feel attacked. Look at the fantastic pictures of Louis, he is so close to the people.

Finally a secret for Leica: I have a CL and no M and buy M lenses, cross-selling…

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13 minutes ago, PDP said:

Finally a secret for Leica: I have a CL and no M and buy M lenses, cross-selling…

That is another thing - quite a few CL owners buy M and SL lenses -  that source of revenue would dry up as customers move to other brands - I was considering a new M 75 for the CL - Now I am looking at Sigma and Panasonic alternatives... It makes my bank manager smile. ;) 

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2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

That is another thing - quite a few CL owners buy M and SL lenses -  that source of revenue would dry up as customers move to other brands - I was considering a new M 75 for the CL - Now I am looking at Sigma and Panasonic alternatives... It makes my bank manager smile. ;) 

Yes .... the takeaway from all of this is that if you are still going continue to use these systems be cautious before you sink a lot of money into them as regards lenses.

Especially when there are cheaper alternatives .

 

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11 minutes ago, jaapv said:

That is another thing - quite a few CL owners buy M and SL lenses -  that source of revenue would dry up as customers move to other brands - I was considering a new M 75 for the CL - Now I am looking at Sigma and Panasonic alternatives... It makes my bank manager smile. ;) 

I will not put a  dkr (€) in SL lenses.  But I do not want to sign that the same will happen for new M lenses… 

But… no I do not think I dare spend money on the new apo M which I strongly considered.  Because if one day I can not focus properly with my M. I would at least be sure they worked with Nikon or Canon.

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4 hours ago, EUSe said:

That is what he said, but everyone in the room understood that there was little or no hope for a CL2. The original CL is a few years old already, and even if there are or were plans for a successor hidden in a drawer, it would be pretty late for the development and production. 

If so that would be a bit disappointing.  Yet it really won't have any true impact for me as I will continue to be well served by my CL for years to come.  Love this camera.

Was anything implied about the TL line?

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