OhOh, future of CL?

[Ko.Fe.]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

5 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

And yet the only two cameras that I ever had to service were a Q2 and a M10 

This is why I won't buy any expensive Leica. No service where I'm, for entire G7 country. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Michael Markey]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

No. It is well known, common problems for these cameras:

https://streetphototip.com/howtos/howto-avoid-fix-common-ricoh-gr-problems/

 

 

Never heard that and I must have had four , maybe five .

All bar one used .... I must have been lucky .

Perhaps I should have done the lottery 

I`d have no qualms about buying another .

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Umm.. That was a D-Lux, not a CL.. And it depends on your pants - or the amount you ate the last weeks  

You're right! My bad, for some reasons I thought it was a silver CL!

But the D-Lux has still a protruding lens

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[gotium]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Umm.. That was a D-Lux, not a CL.. And it depends on your pants - or the amount you ate the last weeks  

Oh dear, I missed that too.  😕

[LeicaS2]

The good Doctor deep into this podcast signals he likes the CL and he also likes smartphones for photography.  He prefers a camera in a smartphone arrangement rather than a smartphone with a camera in it, if you follow the difference. The Japanese Leica phone is photography centric.

 https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/into-the-heart-of-leica-cameras-watches-and-more

[Michael Markey]

10 hours ago, LeicaS2 said:

The good Doctor deep into this podcast signals he likes the CL and he also likes smartphones for photography.  He prefers a camera in a smartphone arrangement rather than a smartphone with a camera in it, if you follow the difference. The Japanese Leica phone is photography centric.

 https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/into-the-heart-of-leica-cameras-watches-and-more

This is probably the direction of travel then and the reason behind the rumoured demise of the CL .

He`s right .

The phone has replaced the market for the small camera  . 

[SoCalLeicanator]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 11/9/2021 at 10:23 PM, Michael Markey said:

This is probably the direction of travel then and the reason behind the rumoured demise of the CL .

He`s right .

The phone has replaced the market for the small camera  . 

I see the phone replacing the RX100s and C-Luxes of the world more than the CLs or XT-4s.  Although on one's instagram feed, they stack up to M10s, SL2s and Qs so maybe I'm wrong.  I am convinced that much like the vinyl record/CD comparison there will always be a "je ne sais quoi" about an image from a lens and m43 and larger sensor that even a whole stadium full of software engineers won't be able to reproduce.   Not to mention, sometimes it's really nice to be walking around without one's phone.  

[Le Chef]

“The phone has replaced the market for the small camera”

For people who just want to record events the convenience of an iPhone is undoubtedly true. Why carry something else around when the phone works perfectly for platforms like FB and IG.

But…if you see photography as more than that, and as a form of self expression over which you wish to exert a greater degree of control, then a camera of almost any size will be the better choice in fulfilling that role.

And in that space APSC cameras still have a valuable role to play.

The distinction is not about sensor size and IQ but about creation and control of the image itself. It’s about a state of mind, not the specifications of a piece of equipment that should be the connection.

But there’s an education job about “why take a camera?” that the camera manufacturers seem to believe is done when in fact the iPhone generations have never had this question fully answered for them.

[Louis]

Very true! I had DLux3, 4 and 5; and I miss them a lot. I never really shoot with my IPhone and may only for a quick detail of an event that I have to text somewhere. When 109 came, I tried it for a while but moved to APSC, T and CL. 109 was too big for my pockets and for bigger that DLux, I preferred moving to  ASPC. 

Coming from Nikon film, I first had a D300 when that camera was a big hit. But never liked it. It lacked simplicity in settings like most Japanese cameras. I gave it to my daughter, but she hates it too! Too big, too heavy and too complicated.

For me, CL is right about everything and I feel very sad if Leica stops the production of APSC cameras.

Now, everyone thinks he/she is a photographer because of a Cellular; and they shoot just anything! I often wondered what they do with those shots! lol 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Louis

[ECohen]

I've been watching this thread and now would be a good time to chime in, maybe for some advice. As like many of you, I am in the same boat.

My apologies if I'm hijacking the thread?

 

I mostly use my cell phone when I'm going to the hardware store.....it's great for that.

I still use a Dlux 6 and an X2 also an M which I love but not as an action or family camera.....And that's what I want.

I did not go to the CL because of the standard zoom, poor auto focus and low light performance of my X2.

Maybe I jump to conclusions  but these systems are too expensive for me to jump in willy-nilly.

The CL could not replace my Nikon as a general shooting camera. I use a Nikon D600 and hate it! I hate it everyday and every time I use it. But the IQ is great as is auto focus and low light.

 

It's not GAS as I have wanted a new camera for some time and sadly Leia has not continued to upgrade the CL system.

I don't want the CL for primes. I want to use this as a zoomable, low light action camera.

 

Anyone here have experience with the CL and the Sigma 18~50 2.8 zoom?

How is the speed of auto focus ?  Can I shoot 3200 usable for 8X10's .....indoors available light ?

 

I'm seriously considering SL2s (yet again) but that purchase makes no real sense as I really want a smaller camera and don't need the video recording capabilities.

 

I love Leica for those great simple German menus. And because of the menus and buttons I really don't want to jump into another brand.

 

In advance you guys are the best. I really appreciate this forum

 

 

 

[oldwino]

I know people in the construction industry. I recently went as a ride-along to visit a site that had suffered some fire damage and they needed to assess the scope of repairs. I took my GR3x along (it's my carry everywhere camera). These guys get on site, and one of them proceeds to pull out an old, crappy looking Canon Power-Whatever-Shot point-and-shoot camera and begins documenting the scene. I asked him why he was using that old camera. "That's what they gave me to use". I explained his new iPhone 12 would probably do a better job. He stared at me, blinked a few times, and said, "but this is a real camera". 

[lct]

1 hour ago, ECohen said:

Anyone here have experience with the CL and the Sigma 18~50 2.8 zoom?

How is the speed of auto focus ?  Can I shoot 3200 usable for 8X10's .....indoors available light ?

 

You may wish to ask here: 

 

[IkarusJohn]

I wonder if the answer to the APS-C question is more to do with what people want.  We all here tend to look at systems from a photographer’s perspective, which is understandable.  But what do people want?

Most people are happy with their phone - they’re with them all the tim, and the quality is good.

Your dedicated photographer, studio guy, professional isn’t too worried about size or weight - image quality is the thing, so PhaseOne, Hasselblad, Leica S or SL are the choice.  But they’re expensive, big and heavy.

What if you want a bit more than your phone offers, but you don’t want an intrusive, huge, look at me statement that you’re a wanker in front of your face.  

Well, there’s the M and lots of other medium sized full frame cameras which are less intrusive, and aren’t so intimidating.  People also look at the M and think it’s like the camera their father, grandfather etc used - it’s more acceptable.

So, as a photographer, what would our mythical purchaser be looking for?  Leica has just put its toe in the water with a camera that’s a phone (the Leica 1 phone), which has a 1” sensor.  If you had a phone with such a big sensor, or a pocketable camera with a phone, why would you buy micro 4/3 or APS-C?  I may be wrong, but if I want a camera, I think I want something more than those compact formats …

In terms of its products, I suspect that Leica’s reputation, profit and unique selling point is in the M, L and S mount systems … not sure the APS-C segments are attractive enough for the putative new Leica buyer.

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by IkarusJohn

[lct]

Always liked APS-C since 2004 (D70, R-D1). I like much my Summilux 75/1.4 but what a barbell... Cameras like R-D1, M8 or digital CL allow the use of smaller 50/1.4 or 50/1.5 lenses instead. Just an example. Now the solution could come from another compromise a couple colleagues here like so much . The little button on the M11's top plate for instance. Could be used to trigger a crop mode, who knows... But only with a Visoflex... On a Messsucher of course... Compromise, compromise .

[IkarusJohn]

7 minutes ago, lct said:

Always liked APS-C since 2004 (D70, R-D1). I like much my Summilux 75/1.4 but what a barbell... Cameras like R-D1, M8 or digital CL allow the use of smaller 50/1.4 or 50/1.5 lenses instead. Just an example. Now the solution could come from another compromise a couple colleagues here like so much . The little button on the M11's top plate for instance. Could be used to trigger a crop mode, who knows... But only with a Visoflex... On a Messsucher of course... Compromise, compromise .

Is it more than gaining reach with your smaller M lenses?  The disadvantage for me, is I lose the wider lenses - the 21 and 28 I really like become 32 and 42, which don’t do much for me.  I find having to rethink my focal lengths annoying (it’s probably just an age thing).  More critically, the smaller sensor increases depth of field for a given aperture, and I’ve always had a prejudice that a larger sensor or film size inherently gives a better image.  Now, before Jaap jumps in with high quality M4/3 and APS-C images, the fact is, for any given MP a larger format will give a better image.

Maybe that’s part of my indifference to APS-C - the loss of wides and the increase in depth of field than come with a smaller sensor.

 

[lct]

30 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

[...] The disadvantage for me, is I lose the wider lenses - the 21 and 28 I really like become 32 and 42, which don’t do much for me. [...]

Same for me of course but put a WATE on a CL and you get a compact 24-28-32 equiv. zoom lens if TL lenses are not your cup of tea. Now, as i suggested above, another compromise could come from crop modes on FF cameras. 

[IkarusJohn]

I have the 35 Summilux-TL and 11-23 zoom.  They’re okay, but given the choice, I prefer my M lenses.  Maybe that’s the problem!

[lct]

12 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I have the 35 Summilux-TL and 11-23 zoom.  They’re okay, but given the choice, I prefer my M lenses.  Maybe that’s the problem!

Always preferred M lenses too but i don't see that as a problem by far. Fantastic that lenses i bought for their compactness and quality 30+ years ago have kept their unique character on modern FF and APS rangefinders and mirrorless cameras. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[cpclee]

4 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Is it more than gaining reach with your smaller M lenses?  The disadvantage for me, is I lose the wider lenses - the 21 and 28 I really like become 32 and 42, which don’t do much for me.  I find having to rethink my focal lengths annoying (it’s probably just an age thing).  More critically, the smaller sensor increases depth of field for a given aperture, and I’ve always had a prejudice that a larger sensor or film size inherently gives a better image.  Now, before Jaap jumps in with high quality M4/3 and APS-C images, the fact is, for any given MP a larger format will give a better image.

Maybe that’s part of my indifference to APS-C - the loss of wides and the increase in depth of field than come with a smaller sensor.

 

I too use primarily M lenses on my CL and had to rethink how to cover the wide end .  In the end I got a 18-56 and couldn't be happier.  It gives me 28mm and 35mm of fullframe equivalent coverage at the wide end plus fast AF when I want it.  I now have a super compact travel kit with both range and speed covered: CL + 18-56 + 35 Summilux M + 75 Summicron M.  

With TL lenses you can still achieve a very shallow depth of field because the lenses focus *much* closer than their M counterparts.

 

[lct]

13 minutes ago, cpclee said:

With TL lenses you can still achieve a very shallow depth of field because the lenses focus *much* closer than their M counterparts.

One has to move hence change perspective for that though. The weakness of APS-C is not in the format but in lenses when they are too slow, too big or both IMHO. The latest Sigma 18-50/2.8 sounds interesting from this viewpoint.