What do you collect ? Bodies or lenses ?

[Mute-on]

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2 hours ago, Steven said:

I ended up going for something different. One lens per body. Or one body per lens. 

Because choosing in renouncing. 

Entirely my philosophy. I don’t like changing lenses on the move, so one body per lens. Seems I’m missing a few bodies ….

 

[Mute-on]

On 9/8/2021 at 5:42 PM, Steven said:

My BP MP3 is the only one I would keep if could keep only one. It's close to a masterpiece. The only thing I would have liked different for it to be the real holy grail is a black frame counter! 

About the Hammertone, I didn't like it at first in photo, and then it grew on me a bit. But I have never seen it in real life and everyone who has says they changed their mind when the saw it and that it's gorgeous, so I'm sure the same would happen to me. 

Not sure im ready to spend 15K to see it in real life though.   

Listed today

https://www.popflash.com/pre-owned-equipment/leica-mp-lhsa-1968-2003-hammertone-set-with-matching-35mm-f/2-asph.-summicron-m-lens-leicavit-m-used-mint/

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[Ko.Fe.]

On 7/4/2021 at 6:27 AM, Steven said:

A year ago, I bought a Leica M6 to get back into film photography. Little did I know, it was the beginning of a fascinating journey into the Leica world. 

 

 

G.A.S has no manufacturer label. It just depends on deepness of your valet.  Mine is plain shallow.

But. After getting M4-2, I collected M3 DS ELC and M4-P. After adding of M-E 220, I purchased M8.

I had bunch of Leica and Leitz lenses. Tried every classic formula 50/2 Leitz made and else.

Still having such shallow pockets, I realized I'm not going to be able to support all of those. 

Nor I need or benefit from lenses collecting. 

I'm down to M-E 220, M4-2 and IIIc. I have only one Leica lens now and no Leitz made anymore. I would like to get second M-E 220 or M240 for a beater .

 

BTW, another way into the Leica world are the books with photos taken by Leica rangefinder cameras. I have many of those. I would often discover photographer over the net, like photos, start digging to realize photos where taken with M. Here is something how M or LTM interfere on photography. While the rest of film and digital Leica is really not distinguishable from other brands on results. Also, oddly enough, people I like are using Leica RF cameras. Known singers and actors are among them. I have this book: https://www.amazon.ca/Behind-Lens-My-Life-Photos/dp/1472130286

 

  

 

[rfaspen]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:15 PM, Artin said:

Wow I just read this thread from start to finish.. a real eye opener . Now I will make my exit from historica never to return 

Could you elaborate why?

Clearly many different people here with varying financial resources and perspectives and interests and personalities.  Yeah, a complete mashup, but I like that.  Don't have to like every post or poster.....

[nitroplait]

12 hours ago, rfaspen said:

Could you elaborate why?

Clearly many different people here with varying financial resources and perspectives and interests and personalities.  Yeah, a complete mashup, but I like that.  Don't have to like every post or poster.....

Some people just have to make a dramatic exit. The poster is alive and kicking in other forums, so no harm done😉

[qqphot]

Well, that really was quite a ride. It seems a lot of sensitivities were exposed.

As for me, anything I collect I intend to use, and my criteria are that I not feel frustrated by using it. Pedestrian or undistinguished is no problem, but not working right is a disqualifier!  I roll my own film for a pre-war baby Rolleiflex too, so "inconvenient" is also not a problem.

I'm thankful that I have no drive to have "all of" a set of something and I'm definitely a bottom feeder by the criteria of this thread. I do think it's silly that someone with a large budget for collecting should have to prove himself a "real" collector more than anyone else.

I do feel like I "should" own an M body, and I'd like an utterly unspecial M2 for shooting with 35mm lenses, but the exponential rise in prices lately has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Edited December 2, 2021 by qqphot

[rfaspen]

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I am in disbelief about film M body prices.  I own just a few of them.... bought when prices were much more reasonable.  Now I'm afraid to take them outside.......almost.  I feel bad for someone who has a genuine like of the M body handling and a normal job today.   

[Steven]

1 hour ago, rfaspen said:

I am in disbelief about film M body prices.  I own just a few of them.... bought when prices were much more reasonable.  Now I'm afraid to take them outside.......almost.  I feel bad for someone who has a genuine like of the M body handling and a normal job today.   

You can still get affordable M bodies today. Cheaper than a Sony A7 or a Canon R5! Just not one made of black paint, olive color or Hermes leather... 

Don't feel bad. 

[pippy]

On 9/17/2021 at 3:59 PM, Ko.Fe. said:

...Also, oddly enough, people I like are using Leica RF cameras. Known singers and actors are among them. I have this book: https://www.amazon.ca/Behind-Lens-My-Life-Photos/dp/1472130286...

Thanks for posting the link to the David Suchet book, Ko.Fe; it looks like a fascinating autobiography.

I knew he was a very keen snapper and the Honorary President of The Leica Society but I didn't know about his book. Xmas pressie, methinks!

Philip.

[qqphot]

5 hours ago, Steven said:

You can still get affordable M bodies today. Cheaper than a Sony A7 or a Canon R5! Just not one made of black paint, olive color or Hermes leather... 

Don't feel bad. 

Sure, and they'll still work fine after the A7 is in the scrap heap. But the "affordable" line is changing very quickly. A clean working M2 in no special livery is $2000+ now, which is edging toward "crazy" in my estimation.

[qqphot]

6 hours ago, rfaspen said:

I am in disbelief about film M body prices.  I own just a few of them.... bought when prices were much more reasonable.  Now I'm afraid to take them outside.......almost.  I feel bad for someone who has a genuine like of the M body handling and a normal job today.   

I feel like the big spike in demand is partly driven by celebrity sightings and youtubers starting trends among their followers, this happens with other cameras too, like inexplicably with random crappy point and shoots.

I have no M body yet, I'll still buy one, I just won't be happy about it. Aside from the cost, the increase in demand means if you're buying one that's not already recently overhauled, you'll wait many months while it's in the queue of one of the few repair people.

[pippy]

23 minutes ago, qqphot said:

...A clean working M2 in no special livery is $2000+ now...

I'm not sure where about you are based, qqphot, nor what the s/h market is like in your area but here in London (which is often priced at the higher end of the scale) the base-rate for a 'user' M2 or M3 is currently hovering around the £1,000 / £1,100 ($1,300 / $1,430) mark and that body will, of course, come with a full guarantee from the dealership so there will be no immediate neccessity for the added expense of a CLA.

To put that into context it's about 1/3 the price of a used Canon EOS-5D Mk IV (for example).

Philip.

Edited December 2, 2021 by pippy

[qqphot]

2 hours ago, pippy said:

I'm not sure where about you are based, qqphot, nor what the s/h market is like in your area but here in London (which is often priced at the higher end of the scale) the base-rate for a 'user' M2 or M3 is currently hovering around the £1,000 / £1,100 ($1,300 / $1,430) mark and that body will, of course, come with a full guarantee from the dealership so there will be no immediate neccessity for the added expense of a CLA.

To put that into context it's about 1/3 the price of a used Canon EOS-5D Mk IV (for example).

Philip.

I'm in San Francisco, but really just basing my guesses on what I see on US sellers on eBay and the usual selection of US dealers. Seems like the UK market may be more reasonable. Certainly on eBay any M2 or M3 under $1500 will be in very poor condition indeed with broken viewfinder glass, inoperative shutter speeds, or substantial drop damage (just from checking out a few listings last night.)  Plus the usual listings from Japan with "Condition: Ex+++++++++++" meaning it's been run over by a light truck rather than a steamroller.

[Steven]

10 hours ago, qqphot said:

Sure, and they'll still work fine after the A7 is in the scrap heap. But the "affordable" line is changing very quickly. A clean working M2 in no special livery is $2000+ now, which is edging toward "crazy" in my estimation.

I'm pretty sure you can get a clean M2 for much less than that. But yes, prices are rising. Not only the price M bodies, also the price of housing, of the Big Mac, and everything else we consume in our lives. It's the unavoidable, and healthy, by my ideology, course of life. 

Still, in a world of non sens digital asset valuation, I think it's pretty nice that we can still acquire tangible, mechanical objects for affordable prices. The same is true for physical art. Prices have increased, but to a much lesser extent than jpeg instagram posts marketed as NFTs. 

[Steven]

10 hours ago, qqphot said:

you'll wait many months while it's in the queue of one of the few repair people.

Not sure about this either. In Paris, there is a man who is arguable the greatest repair artist of all times, when it comes to the M. He doesn't have a crazy turnaround time. Couple weeks max. 

[Steven]

7 hours ago, qqphot said:

I'm in San Francisco, but really just basing my guesses on what I see on US sellers on eBay and the usual selection of US dealers. Seems like the UK market may be more reasonable. Certainly on eBay any M2 or M3 under $1500 will be in very poor condition indeed with broken viewfinder glass, inoperative shutter speeds, or substantial drop damage (just from checking out a few listings last night.)  Plus the usual listings from Japan with "Condition: Ex+++++++++++" meaning it's been run over by a light truck rather than a steamroller.

Don't buy cameras on eBay. The prices are double. Or more. 

If you must, write to the big dealers, they'll cut you the price heavily (in my experience by 30%) if you negotiate a bit and accept to pay via transfer. 

[Pyrogallol]

12 hours ago, qqphot said:

I'm in San Francisco, but really just basing my guesses on what I see on US sellers on eBay and the usual selection of US dealers. Seems like the UK market may be more reasonable. Certainly on eBay any M2 or M3 under $1500 will be in very poor condition indeed with broken viewfinder glass, inoperative shutter speeds, or substantial drop damage (just from checking out a few listings last night.)  Plus the usual listings from Japan with "Condition: Ex+++++++++++" meaning it's been run over by a light truck rather than a steamroller.

I don’t know what import duty you would have to pay, but Red Dot Cameras in the UK have 16 used M2 and M3 cameras for sale at prices ranging from £1100 for an M2  to £2800 for a repainted black M3 with Summicron. That might be a better choice for you?

https://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/247-m-bodies#/model-m3-m2&orderby=price&orderway=asc&n=16

[zeitz]

49 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

I don’t know what import duty you would have to pay

The Harmonized Tariff Schedule code for an M2 (and any 35mm, focusing, non-SLR) is 9006.53.01.  The published tariff/duty on this category is "Free".  The published tariff on still camera lenses (9002.11.90)  is 2.3%.  A call to your local US customs office would get the answer if there are any other temporary/special tariffs imposed on Germany. Or if the tariff on lenses assembled in Portugal is still 0%.  If you buy a camera with a lens listed as one item on the invoice, use the code for the camera or the lens, whichever is the most expensive part.

[qqphot]

5 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

I don’t know what import duty you would have to pay, but Red Dot Cameras in the UK have 16 used M2 and M3 cameras for sale at prices ranging from £1100 for an M2  to £2800 for a repainted black M3 with Summicron. That might be a better choice for you?

https://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/247-m-bodies#/model-m3-m2&orderby=price&orderway=asc&n=16

Well apparently that's where they've all gone! None of the dealers I typically check have any at all. Worth looking at, thank you.

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[Al Brown]

2 hours ago, qqphot said:

Well apparently that's where they've all gone! None of the dealers I typically check have any at all. Worth looking at, thank you.

Most M2's on German eBay in 2021 start at 1200 euros or thereabouts, and the price is the same for M5's. Sometimes at an auction or SEND OFFER you can get them for 800 euros, which is an actual realistc price. I just did. Of course the upper price limit goes as far as anyone is prepared to pay.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Al Brown