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What do you collect ? Bodies or lenses ?


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1 hour ago, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

I use an Alpa expert to fix my pre-war Zeiss Contax II.  Not too expensive either.  In fact, anyone who works on the Russian Kiev rangefinder should be able to fix the pre-war Contax II or III, since they're pretty much the same.  Several enthusiasts I know even fix their own.  I'm not sure shutters of the pre-war Zeiss Contax (II and III) are fragile so much as just the samples we have floating around today on those auction sites have broken curtains.  Once fixed, I'm told, they're actually pretty reliable for 10 or so years.  The ergonomics, for me, are marvelous, once you get used to it, but I have long fingers, and don't mind the 'Contax Grip.'

As you mentioned long rangefinder base and outstanding optics.  Always surprised with just how good are those uncoated pre-war Jena optics.  And I love the large, contrasty rangefinder patch.  In these areas the pre-war Zeiss outdid the pre-war Leica.  Hear horror stories about the Contax I though.  Would be a nice paperweight I suppose.  

Paperweight, gift from my Leica repair man.

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5 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

host them onto that complex double-bayonet mechanism

There were more than a few cameras that used a double focusing system.  In the US we had the Bell & Howell Foton, which is very fine camera and, for me, is ergonomically superior to the Contax.

When you buy your Nikon SP, make sure to get the 5cm f1.1 Nikkor that uses the external bayonet. 😀

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6 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Apart the well known story of the shutter... well, Zeiss optics were undoubtly great (and often superior to comparable Leiz)... but to host them onto that complex double-bayonet mechanism... 🙄

Well, of course the Contax double-bayonet was much more complicated than the Leica screw mount or even the M-mount. Though it had some advantages: most lenses for 35mm film had 50mm and on the Contax they could use the camera's focussing mechanism, so they didn't need one themselves. Lenses without a focussing mount were much easier to produce - and therefore less costly (for the producer). Still today you will never have a problem with a "sticky" focus of your 50mm lens on the Contax. The camera's focussing mechanism seems to work eternally without maintenance. (All my older Leitz lenses have had more or less "sticky" focussing mounts before they had a CLA). Unfortunately the camera's mechanism was useless for other focal lengthes, so they had to give the camera the double bayonet (and Zeiss lenses with their own focussing mount are as "sticky" as their companions from Wetzlar...). 

 

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16 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

back of the lens caps

 

16 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

body caps

You are spot on concerning Contax caps.  Were Contax cameras only sold with a 50mm lens?  What happened to all the original internal mount rear lens caps and body caps?  They are hard to find and expensive.

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On 7/23/2021 at 8:00 PM, zeitz said:

 

You are spot on concerning Contax caps.  Were Contax cameras only sold with a 50mm lens?  What happened to all the original internal mount rear lens caps and body caps?  They are hard to find and expensive.

I see (US catalog 1939) that Contax was indeed sold also as "body only"... unclear if it included the body cap... 🤥

 

Contax II only, without lens or lens cap ............ . . $141.00

Dust cap for Contax with lens removed . . . . . . . .. . . $1.00

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi, 

I thought I would update you on my collecting decision making. I tried for as long as I could to rationalise it, but I could not. Everything was logical, and yet nothing made sense. 

And then, a miracle happened. I was invited to a third cousins birthday. I really did not want to go, but I had to show up. I was sat next to a guy who was a collector himself. 

He has been collecting for 42 years..... airplane vomit bags. He has 1522 of them in his house, including some from airlines that no longer exist, and that used to travel between countries that no longer exists. I spoke to him for 2 hours about his passion for collecting. I concluded that the only thing I should collect are the things that make me happy, without worrying about it making sense (to others) or not. 

As a result, this is what my shelf looks like today.

I sold a lot of stuff since the last time we spoke. I also a bought a lot of new things. In the process, there is one thing I learned: after every new acquisition, I tell myself I'm set. But it's just a matter of time until there is a new target. And that's the beauty of "collecting". My next target(s) now seem to be gravitating  around older, non Leica lenses. My new favorite thread: The View though Older Glass.

 

 

SL2-S

Leica Q2

 

M10R BP

M10D (repainted in Olive)

 

MP3 Silver

MP3 Black Paint

MP Kyoto Olive

MP Olive (Brassed)

MP Hermes

MP Titane

MP BP (Panda dials)

 

M7 Black Paint with classic rewind knob 

M7 Olive with classic rewind knob 

 

—————————

 

28 Elmarit Silver

28 Summilux Silver

 

-

 

35 8 elements last batch

 

-

 

35 Lux Steel Rim 

35 Lux Steel Rim (yes, I have two. It's my all time favourite)

35 Lux Pre Asph Infinity Lock Brass

35 Lux Titane v2 

 

-

 

 

35AA 

 

-

 

35 Pre FLE Silver

 

-

 

35 FLE Silver (comes with the Kyoto, otherwise it would already be in the bin)

 

-

 

35 Nokton Silver Limited edition 

35 Nokton Black V2 MC

 

-


50 Noctilux 1.2 reissue in chrome 

50 Summilux Asph Black Paint (comes with MP3)

50 Summilux E46 Silver

Edited by Steven
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3 hours ago, Steven said:

Hi, 

I thought I would update you on my collecting decision making. I tried for as long as I could to rationalise it, but I could not. Everything was logical, and yet nothing made sense. 

And then, a miracle happened. I was invited to a third cousins birthday. I really did not want to go, but I had to show up. I was sat next to a guy who was a collector himself. 

He has been collecting for 42 years..... airplane vomit bags. He has 1522 of them in his house, including some from airlines that no longer exist, and that used to travel between countries that no longer exists. I spoke to him for 2 hours about his passion for collecting. I concluded that the only thing I should collect are the things that make me happy, without worrying about it making sense (to others) or not. 

As a result, this is what my shelf looks like today.

I sold a lot of stuff since the last time we spoke. I also a bought a lot of new things. In the process, there is one thing I learned: after every new acquisition, I tell myself I'm set. But it's just a matter of time until there is a new target. And that's the beauty of "collecting". My next target(s) now seem to be gravitating  around older, non Leica lenses. My new favorite thread: The View though Older Glass.

 

 

SL2-S

Leica Q2

 

M10R BP

M10D (repainted in Olive)

 

MP3 Silver

MP3 Black Paint

MP Kyoto Olive

MP Olive (Brassed)

MP Hermes

MP Titane

MP BP (Panda dials)

 

M7 Black Paint with classic rewind knob 

M7 Olive with classic rewind knob 

 

—————————

 

28 Elmarit Silver

28 Summilux Silver

 

-

 

35 8 elements last batch

 

-

 

35 Lux Steel Rim 

35 Lux Steel Rim (yes, I have two. It's my all time favourite)

35 Lux Pre Asph Infinity Lock Brass

35 Lux Titane v2 

 

-

 

 

35AA 

 

-

 

35 Pre FLE Silver

 

-

 

35 FLE Silver (comes with the Kyoto, otherwise it would already be in the bin)

 

-

 

35 Nokton Silver Limited edition 

35 Nokton Black V2 MC

 

-


50 Noctilux 1.2 reissue in chrome 

50 Summilux Asph Black Paint (comes with MP3)

50 Summilux E46 Silver

There is a gaping hole in your MP series. Since I am living vicariously here, please acquire a complete MP Hammertone set of body, Leicavit, and 35 Summicron with painted hood :)

 

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6 hours ago, Mute-on said:

There is a gaping hole in your MP series. Since I am living vicariously here, please acquire a complete MP Hammertone set of body, Leicavit, and 35 Summicron with painted hood :)

 

The hammertone actually doesn’t have a place in my collection with the direction I chose, since I chose to into buy things I love. Not just for the pure perverse sake of possession. 
i have  never seen it in real life, but I have never found it very attractive in pictures, although it has grown on me a little by little along the months. 
I just don’t see myself ever choosing this camera before leaving the house over my Olive or titan, or black paint …. 
same reason I didn’t get the anthracite, as much as it’s tempting to compete the MP collecting ! But then I would also need the MP blue stain. 
 

as for the leicavit, I wouldn’t use it either. And the lens, while it has a cool design, is one of my least favorite lens ever made. 

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16 minutes ago, Steven said:

The hammertone actually doesn’t have a place in my collection with the direction I chose, since I chose to into buy things I love. Not just for the pure perverse sake of possession. 
i have  never seen it in real life, but I have never found it very attractive in pictures, although it has grown on me a little by little along the months. 
I just don’t see myself ever choosing this camera before leaving the house over my Olive or titan, or black paint …. 
same reason I didn’t get the anthracite, as much as it’s tempting to compete the MP collecting ! But then I would also need the MP blue stain. 
 

as for the leicavit, I wouldn’t use it either. And the lens, while it has a cool design, is one of my least favorite lens ever made. 

Fair enough. To be serious, it is good that you have a well clarified philosophy for your collection. I have always regretted not buying the Hammertone set when I had the opportunity. 
 

So, how about an M2 in original black paint to go with the Summilux steel rim for a matching period body? :)

 

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1 hour ago, Mute-on said:

So, how about an M2 in original black paint to go with the Summilux steel rim for a matching period body? :)

Sounds like a fun axis to build a collection around, but does not match one my criteria. I don't use cameras without meter. I find the internal meter of the modern MPs very convenient and don't see a reason to go out with a camera that doesn't have one. Having the meter doesnt force me to always use it, but it's there if I want ! 

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On 9/5/2021 at 1:35 AM, Steven said:

The hammertone actually doesn’t have a place in my collection with the direction I chose, since I chose to into buy things I love. Not just for the pure perverse sake of possession. 
i have  never seen it in real life, but I have never found it very attractive in pictures, although it has grown on me a little by little along the months. 
I just don’t see myself ever choosing this camera before leaving the house over my Olive or titan, or black paint …. 
same reason I didn’t get the anthracite, as much as it’s tempting to compete the MP collecting ! But then I would also need the MP blue stain. 
 

as for the leicavit, I wouldn’t use it either. And the lens, while it has a cool design, is one of my least favorite lens ever made. 

Hello Steven, so sorry the Hammertone does not appeal to you. I was very proud of that one, as the Hammertone is very unique. Leica had a difficult time getting the finish right, and I still have some trial samples as well as the outfit. My inspiration fir it was the Hammertone MD, of which only ten were made. All of them were sold through Hermann Camera here in Chicago in the 60’s. I brokered the sale of one for a friend of mine here who was the original owner. When the time came for a follow on to the Black Paint M6 TTL. Of course, the Hammertone!

I am very pleased you kept the MP3 cameras. I am most proud of that one. I think I discussed this one with you. I pushed Leica hard on this one. Go for broke would be the expression that fits best. The raised frames around the windows, external frame counter, simple frame lines. The lugs were the most difficult for Leica to get right. I toyed with doing a meter less version, but felt that real users would appreciate having a meter. My brief to Leica was to make the unobtainable (original MP), within reach and obtainable for regular Leica users.

I also pushed very hard on the 50 Summilux. The first response from Leica was they could not do the lens, as the Summilux ASPH was new and they couldn’t keep up with production of the normal lens. I pushed back and they gave in. The rest is they say, history. This lens has been one of the best sellers Leica has made in the classic form. One thing I forgot to check on was the problematic filter thread pitch and the hood issue while using filters. I never use filters, so it never occurred to me to check this before production!

Edited by derleicaman
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3 hours ago, derleicaman said:

Hello Steven, so sorry the Hammertone does not appeal to you. I was very proud of that one, as the Hammertone is very unique. Leica had a difficult time getting the finish right, and I still have some trial samples as well as the outfit. My inspiration fir it was the Hammertone MD, of which only ten were made. All of them were sold through Hermann Camera here in Chicago in the 60’s. I brokered the sale of one for a friend of mine here who was the original owner. When the time came for a follow on to the Black Paint M6 TTL. Of course, the Hammertone!

I am very pleased you kept the MP3 cameras. I am most proud of that one. I think I discussed this one with you. I pushed Leica hard on this one. Go for broke would be the expression that fits best. The raised frames around the windows, external frame counter, simple frame lines. The lugs were the most difficult for Leica to get right. I toyed with doing a meter less version, but felt that real users would appreciate having a meter. My brief to Leica was to make the unobtainable (original MP), within reach and obtainable for regular Leica users.

I also pushed very hard on the 50 Summilux. The first response from Leica was they could not do the lens, as the Summilux ASPH was new and they couldn’t keep up with production of the normal lens. I pushed back and they gave in. The rest is they say, history. This lens has been one of the best sellers Leica has made in the classic form. One thing I forgot to check on was the problematic filter thread pitch and the hood issue while using filters. I never use filters, so it never occurred to me to check this before production!

My BP MP3 is the only one I would keep if could keep only one. It's close to a masterpiece. The only thing I would have liked different for it to be the real holy grail is a black frame counter! 

About the Hammertone, I didn't like it at first in photo, and then it grew on me a bit. But I have never seen it in real life and everyone who has says they changed their mind when the saw it and that it's gorgeous, so I'm sure the same would happen to me. 

Not sure im ready to spend 15K to see it in real life though.   

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Yes, the Hammertone is truly stunning in real life, as I remember it, appearing grey and slightly green, depending on lighting and the individual camera. It is even nicer to touch. Ah well. I let that one slip away … :(

 

Edited by Mute-on
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3 hours ago, Steven said:

Sorry not the frame counter. The other silver part next to it. 

Surround for the shutter release? Remember, the design objective was to match the original MP camera in every detail, except it being a modern camera, hence the meter.

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Am 4.7.2021 um 12:27 schrieb Steven:

So if you had an enveloppe of money dedicated to collecting, what would you go for ? Five bodies with fifty lenses, of fifty bodies with 5 lenses. 

I´d replace the envelope by the largest Rimowa trolley I own full of "BIG NUMBER" bank notes.

I´D ONLY collect M cameras once owned by VERY famous persons, like FAMOUS Magnum photographers or even the Leica of the Queen of England.

Reason would be my very limited storage space (single family house). With that way of collecting I might end with ONLY 50 siginficant cameras and maybe 90 lenses. If you start to collect standard (inflationary sold) limited editions to very common people (like the Hermès M7) you would be totally lost and NEVER happy because this gear is "so common and trivial". As a collector you´d need to buy -at least- ALL Hermès cameras to be happy. What a nightmare!

If you focus on certain FUTURE limited edtions, you could have a deal with Leica that they only sell to you, but the Hermès M7 nightmare problem would remain.

😉

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